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Lotsadogs
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Lotsadogs is offline  
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05-04-2011, 08:20 AM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post


Dog jumps so owner ignores it, turns, does not give any eye or body contact, dog eventuall goes "hmmm, what can I do next" this is usually accompanied by dog stepping back or sitting, VOILA, you click and reward so the likelihood of the dog continuing to jump reduces and the likelihood of the dog sitting increases. You then put it on cue. Training a behaviour that is incompatible with jumping.

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I agree with everything smokeybear says but would add.

Remember, dogs think that we know what they are wanting or talking about when they bark or look at us, or whione, or jump up......We can use this knowledge to cease behaviours we dont want..... ie To stop a dog barking it can be really helpfull to link the barking with somethink the dog doesn't like...... such as by saying "Oh you want me to cut your toe nails? ok" and cut his toe nails (assuming he doesn't likethis toe nails being cut).

Dog thinks, "she thinks I want my toe nails cutting when I bark, bummer, stupid owner, Ill have to stop barking - I hate having my toe nails cut!". Dog stops barking.

Like SB says though people have different levels of tolerance for some behaviours and also different levels of energy/knowledge and or/time to resolve a problem.

The level of annoyance/irritation/inconvenience/danger/persistence of a dogs behaviour needs to be such that it motivates the owner to direct energy, knowledge, time and effort towards resolving the behaviour, for it to be extinguished.

In other words,
The reasons that some owners do not cease "unwanted behaviours" are usually one of the following.
The owner doesn't have the time,
hasn't got the energy,
the motivation isnt sufficient,
or they don't have the knowledge.

Most commonly, though of course is that the owner is inadvertently rewarding and therefore encouraging the behaviour, and doesn't realise it. A stern "No you bad dog!" thought of by many as a punishment, can often be a reward to a dog who has been ignored or alone all day! Any attention is better than no attention to some dogs.
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sarah1983
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05-04-2011, 09:53 AM
Yep, it is what I would think is the right thing to do. But, I'm sure they said, if a dog is hyper, it just needs calming down, rather than being given something else to do. The dogs need to have a harness and a collar and a double lead, and with the hyper springer, she just sort of walked it round til it calmed down. When Jake has blipped and gone hyper over car, I make him sit and look at me, wait, and then he gets a treat (and has forgotten about the car!). They are saying not to do that?
Um...so what are you supposed to do instead? Just walk them round? I'm sorry but I see nothing wrong in redirecting a dog to more appropriate behaviour.

For Ruperts barking at the window whenever someone passed I just said "thank you" then lured him away, asked for a sit or down or something then rewarded him. For his jumping up and for mouthing I simply left the room for 10 seconds every time he did it then went back in and repeated as necessary. For the racing around whenever it was time for a walk I put the leash back on the hook and sat down with a book. I don't think it's practical in real life never to use some sort of "correction" or redirection.
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ClaireandDaisy
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05-04-2011, 10:32 AM
I just think people need to keep it firmly in mind that they are dealing with an animal.
Animals don`t have good and bad behaviour. No, they really don`t. Why is it `bad` for a dog to eat food that is in front of him? The fact that WE think it `belongs` to the cat is not comprehensible to a dog. So feed the cat where the dog can`t reach it.
We have lots of stuff we`d rather they didn`t do. So it`s a question of training and shaping behaviour.
If the dog does something you don`t want, the dog hasn`t done `wrong`. You haven`t trained him enough. So why get cross and punish the poor dog?
This is why positive training works. You make it rewarding for a dog to do A, he will do A.
If you punish a dog for doing A he will not view A as `bad`. He will view doing A as dangerous if you are around.
Dog training really isn`t difficult. As long as you remember that
1. it`s an animal and animals don`t speak think or understand your language.
2. Animals don`t have a philosophy. They learn by experience.
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Lotsadogs
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05-04-2011, 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
If the dog does something you don`t want, the dog hasn`t done `wrong`. You haven`t trained him enough. So why get cross and punish the poor dog?

I dont think anyone needs to get cross in order to outline a boundary.

Positive training is brilliant for training in new things, or indeed for preventing unwanted things that are "known", or expected, but for the first time a dog does something unexpected and in the "now" it is often necessary to interrupt and or correct "now". Otherwise the dog gets to practice and enjoy things which are not acceptable.



This is why positive training works. You make it rewarding for a dog to do A, he will do A.
If you punish a dog for doing A he will not view A as `bad`. He will view doing A as dangerous if you are around. I dont agree that he will view it as dangerous, unless you have doen something that makes him feel in danger. A simple ahah, for many dogs, is enough to make him think "oh she doesnt want me to do that" and for some dogs, that is enough for them never to do that again. For others, it isnt.

Dog training really isn`t difficult. As long as you remember that For some, dog training isn't difficult.Instinctive trainers are just that instinctive. For others, it is a complete mystery. For most, it is somewhere in between the two on the easy/complete mystery scale. Being told something is easy if you find it hard, can cause a person to feel inadequate. I prefer to say dog training is easy, when you know how. And that is where education comes in. Until that point it is not so easy.I am a dog trainer, have been for many years, yet I still find some aspects of dog training more challenging than others. For instance, until I learnt the intricacies of how to train a sheepdog correctly, training a sheepdog was a mystery to me. I might have muddled through on my own eventually, but it was easier for me to ask help from some proffesionals to hurry the process along and keep the sheep safe.
hope the colour thing worked out ok - not sure how to multquote
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sarah1983
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05-04-2011, 12:35 PM
If you punish a dog for doing A he will not view A as `bad`. He will view doing A as dangerous if you are around.
But it's not about punishing the dog. It's about stopping a behaviour you don't want and showing what you do want. Such as noticing the dog is about to chew your sofa, interrupting it and offering an appropriate chew toy instead and rewarding the dog for chewing on that. Nobody's talking about frightening the dog or hurting the dog, just interrupting and redirecting. Or teaching a dog that a certain behaviour has a certain consequence such as the dog barking results in the leash going away and the owner sitting down instead of taking the dog out for a walk.
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