Vet visit today. Advice regarding Fudge (crossbreed)

Some of you may have read another thread regarding Fudge being a bit grumbly over the last couple of weeks. this has resulted in her grumbling if moved away from people eating.

http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=63635

I have taken Fudge to the vets today for her eyes to be checked and to get kennel cough.

the vet did not find anything physically wrong with her although her eyes were still alittle pink but not discharging.The kennel cough was given by them whilst i waited in the waiting room.

I spoke about Fudge`s behaviour and the vet gave me the following advive.She feels that it is Fudge flexing her muscles and that food is aften an area where this happens. She has advised that Fudge is removed form the room in the short time whilst we are eating. This should begin to reaffirm that it is our food not hers. No extra food is to be given to her (unless being used in a training session), unless it goes in her dish. After a couple of weeks she is then to be allowed back into a room when we are eating but to carefully monitor and have her lying in her bed. This should all reinforce that the food is ours. the vet explained that if she is given bits from us whilst eating she sees the food as partly hers and then guards it.

We have also to make sure she does not go on furniture as the vet felt it could all be partly due to her flexing her muscles as a young adult dog.We have to make sure she understands her boundaries and what is expected of her. Rewards to be used obviously when she does well rather than sanctions when she doesn`t.

I just wanted to know really if people felt we were on the right track.Some of these strategies I had already put into place at the beginning of the week, so feel we have made a start.

This is what we do with Max. He stays in the kitchen when we eat. We often feed him around the same time. No scraps of food from plates, only in his bowl.

We do this mainly because he begs and drools if he is in the same room, but also because he has (in the past) tried to steal food from plates.

I think your vet is actually talking a lot of sense!

Also, glad to hear nothing is physically wrong with Fudge!

Glad to hear physically she is well and your vet makes sense in what they say.

I was always told the food thing in the dish only - and to be honest we don't have the dogs in the room whilst eating - just annoy us otherwise like Isochick said.

Re: on the furniture - trying to think if there is a way you can 'train' Fudge to get off without her getting cross if you want her on the sofa - can you perhaps have a training session to teach her off the sofa and only let her on when you tell her ok?

I'll have a search/think as to how this can be trained - but if you are happy to stop her on the furniture - again she will need to discover just how rewarding being on the floor/her bed is first - otherwise you will have a battle getting her off - did your vet give you hints how to win this!

all the best,

Rach

Oh dear a dominance theory vet, Not a behaviourist by any chance ?

Removing her from the room whilst you are eating will not reinforce anything, she will not relate this to you eating just that she is being excluded.

If you don't feed her from your plates & ignore her rather than move her away. This will mean she learns asking for food will not be rewarded or encouraged, but that not asking will be rewarded with "treats" being given via her food bowl after you have eaten.

If she guards her food bowl or bones/chews etc hold the food bowl/bone/chew whilst you feed her/she chews the bone/chew. Add just a little food at a time so that she sees you as a provider not a threat

It is in fact quite natural(although not always acceptable)for a lower ranked dog to illicit food from the higher ranked dogs(puppies licking their mother's mouth to get her to regurgitate food is survial instinct for example)

What your dog has to learn is that you will provide food/treats if she behaves as you want. So if she behaves whilst you eat you can reward her with praise & food afterwards

My dogs learn from an early age that I do not feed from my plate/food, but they get anything suitable that is left(I usually make extra for them anyway)afterwards

My father,bless him, used to always feed the dogs whilst he was eating then complain that they kept pestering him

As to the problem of being on the furniture treat it as a training exercise, if she's on the furniture call her off & treat her & praise her if she comes off. You need a command such as off rather than no or come so that she relates the command to getting off the furniture

You could also try some T Touch massage(just put T Touch massage Linda Tellington Jones into any search engine & you will be able to learn about it)this will get her to asociate being touched with being relaxed & chilled out-I use it as a form of reward for my dogs who queue up for it !

I have been doing this part all week with her. She will get down when asked no problem. I have then been getting her to lie by me on the floor(whilst i sit on the sofa above her) and giving her lots of strokes and tickles and a play session. I have noticed already that she is trying less and less to get up.

I'm not sure of the dominance thing, but generally, a dog who is after your food is just annoying.

When we ignored Max, he just shifted closer to us and drooled on the floor. Even if told to move "back", he would gradually creep towards us. He also started to whine and eventually, the pools of saliva on the carpet and the constant whining when we were eating got too much!

We now take our plates in to the dining room/living room; give Max his food and shut him in the kitchen (babygate, not door). He eats his food, we eat ours, and when the plates are cleared he is allowed back in.

So glad to hear fudge is ok. I think the vet is talking sense and agre with him totally. We have never had the dogs in the same room when we are eating. And always they get fed after us. They only eat their food out of their own bowls. Can't help you with the furniture as I have never allowed my dogs on the furniture. They have their own beds and their own spaces in the house. Maybe if I had had smaller dogs it would have been different. I can only say it has worked for me and they never attempt to get on the furniture.

I understand what you are saying. The problem is that Fudge gets very close whilst you are eating. She lays her head on your lap. This means with the children she is very close to the food and their faces. If they move her away or try to block her this is when she starts grumbling. I am not happy to just leave her in that position and ignore her.This is why the vet had suggested removing her from the room as a short term measure.I have been doing the ignoring thing myself this week and she has gone and lay down and given up so i agree it works. it is just harder around the children. Any further advice in this particularly would be welcome.

She has no guarding issues with her own food/bones toys at all. She will sit and wait until her food is put down and she is told she can have it. I can also place a treat on my knee with her sitting in front of me and she will not take it until told.The grumbling is very specific to eating away from the table in a more informal family setting.

Thanks for your input, it is good to get lots of ideas.

She won't understand why you are excluding her though so you could try another way like giving her a filled kong whilst you & the family eat & distract her, that way she will see you eating as the time she gets her special treat & at no other time

I think this is a great idea. Patch had talked about this in the original thread. We were going to do this with her in the kitchen whilst we ate in the living room.Hopefully she will associate our meal time with her kong and it will stop her focussing on the kids food.Thanks for the help.