Questions to ask trainer?

Hi,
As some of you may know I am a first time owner of a four and a half month old English Springer Spaniel named Tigger.

I have been looking for a good obedience class to enrol him in and have finally found one quite close to home. The trainer has said they use only positive methods, no yanking, pulling or throwing water so this is a good start but I feel that I dont know what other things to find out to be sure this is potentially a good class.


Any ideas? Or things that should ring alarm bells?

Hi are you actually after pet obedience, or competition obedience?

I'd say that what the trainer has said so far is fine, what I'd tend to do is actually go along and watch a class first, without the dog, then you can kind of see for yourself if you will gel with the trainer and everything that goes on

I like the name Tigger for an ESS

Like Wysiwyg says, go along and see for yourself. That way you can speak to the other dog-owners too and get their opinions.

Thanks both of you. I will arrange to go and watch without Tigger.

In answer to the kind of obedience I want, I suppose I'm showing how new I really am to this. As I don't know!
I suppose until Im sure of how quick he picks up obedience then I will stick to basic pet obedience, then maybe progress depending on how he does. Or are the methods different?
He seems pretty intelligent. He understands quite a few spoken commands already. He knows Sit, Lie Down, Take it outside (lol), Hungry?, No, Come here, His name, and he did know Fetch, although he seems to prefer to run off with said item now and hide, so that needs to be recovered somehow.
He also seems to be rather wilful though so eliminating bad habits (such as his desire to jump from standing still in one leap onto my lap! Is that why they call them Springers? ) may be what I need to concentrate on.

He pulls on his lead and despite following various fool-proof methods, continues to do so. I know he needs loads of exercise, both on and off lead so want to get this sorted out to help both of us!

He is friendly towards both other dogs and people. He sprinkles on unsuspecting peoples feet but I realise he doesnt have awareness of this and that it will go with time. Doesn't react badly to people touching his toys, bed or food.
Its just basic manners I think I want him to have.


Although I think he would LOVE agility. They have to be around 12 months to start though dont they? If not, (Ive prob read it wrong) where can i get equipment from such as a tunnel, hoop etc?

Sorry for such a rambling post.

Oh and WYSIWYG, he *does* bounce just like his namesake!

It sounds as if he's doing fine and is a loved and happy boy

I'd think that from what you say, pet obedience (ie just the usual sit, wait, stay, down, recall, leave etc) is what you want. With competition, Obedience, they basically just use more rules and kind of, want more accuracy and things done in a certain way. For example, I teach my dog an informal recall (I call, dog runs to me,) as that's all we need. For other stuff I teach a more formal recall (as in recall in working trials which needs a bit more finesse).

IF you are into agility, you may want to keep an eye on Patch's posts, as she is an agility trainer (sorry there may be others on here, but I'm so far only aware of Patch, sorry if I'm leaving anyone out).

Good luck

I've used various trainers at various times and I've learned that styles vary a great deal. Some are very good, others are not. Many operate on a "one size fits all" basis and these are best avoided. Others are inclined to bully both dogs and owners. You need to decide in advance what it is that YOU personally want to achieve rather than just join in with whatever is going on at the time. Make sure that you and your dog will be treated as individuals rather than just be part of the crowd.
As others have said, the only way to find out is to visit and talk to people, and hopefully find someone who suits you and is interested in helping you to achieve your aims.
In reality of course its the owner who is trained.

One further thought if you are new to this business....
Its often worth the extra expense of starting with a few individual sessions before joining a group. Its a quick way of gaining confidence rather than jumping in at the deep end and feeling that perhaps you're the only one there who doesn't know exactly what they're doing. Also it gives you a better opportunity to get to know the trainer and for the trainer to understand you and your dog.

Hi there, [ and hi Wysiwyg :smt003 ],

congratulations on your pup

Re agility, you are right yep, good agility clubs wont allow dogs under 12 months to train `proper`, and when they are old enough should take things steady and build up confidence as well as muscle tone etc by gradually increasing what the dogs are allowed to do.

There are certainly things you can do with a youngster though which put no physical pressure on growing pups.
Open tunnel, yes they are absolutely fine. The ones I recommend for home use with new dogs are the plastc type for kids which often have a clear panel - great for new dogs to learn with as they can see properly as they go through. I got mine from Homebase iirc [ was a looong time ago lol ].

With a hoop, at this stage I would not really advise them as, even when firmly fixed, they are very thin and can damage a youngster if overexhubberant - very easy for them to get tangled with if you see what I mean.

A very good one for home training is a painted plank on the ground, with a clearly contrasting colour for the contact point.
In competition and regular kit, the contact area is 36" but I think its a good idea to paint it a little shorter for this type of garden training / play - not too short though, it must be achievable. I usually recommend 30" - the idea being if a dog learns to get the contacts like that then the normal longer contact should be good and solid later on

At such a young age, please dont be tempted to raise it as a little see-saw because even at low drop its too much for a young `un, and even though your pup is more than likely to be jumping a lot generally, please dont try doing agility style so young as its very repetitive take off and landing impact, and any turns after jumps can be high pressure as well on growing joints and a strain on juvenile muscles.

The best pre-agility training you can do is work on directional cues, [ left and right ], speed up and slow down on cue, and games where you run about at different speeds and directions, looking at what body movements of yours the littl`un takes note of, responds to, and can follow easily, as well as seeing which are too confusing to him.

Poles on the ground between made up `wings` are very usefull too, for early familiarisation and to practice directional cues on.

When you start going to obedience, you will find that most heelwork is done with the dog to the left of the handler and this can be a problem for agility because some dogs dont realise they are allowed to be on both sides of the handler so whatever exercises you do with Tigger on the left, make sure you do them equally on the right as well [ with clear cues to differenciate, be they verbal or visual cues ], so that by the time you are ready to start agility, Tigger will hopefully be as confident on both sides of you.

One more absolute no-no, weave poles - dont be tempted to try tose, primarily because its too much bending for a youngsters body, espcially those so small that there is no bending to start with but as they get bigger and need to actually weave, the physical pressure is way too much, plus its something which you really need to be taught properly as a handler so leave that until you are training with a good club.

The most important thing for agility training, be it the sort as above or actual equipment training, is that it should be made fun for the dog, so keep sessions very short and sweet, dont try to do too much too soon, be consistant and get him confident and reliable at one thing before you introduce something else, and very importantly if you get frustrated at all, stop, take a breather, and try again later but always finish each short session on a high with something he has already learned, [ even if its just a `sit` ], - a dog can only learn what their handler is able to teach them so if Tigger finds something difficult, look for a different way to `explain` it to him to keep him interested and keen to learn.

Thats more than enough to be going on with I think, I do tend to go on a bit some times :smt005

[ PS - sorry if this has been useful for you, perhaps print it out and refer to it now and then and perhaps take a copy with you to obedience so they can help you with some of the bits about movement and cue`s when Tigger is ready to progress and to ensure nothing conflicts with his basic training as its easy to develop bad habits doing agility orientated training at home without an experienced eye to guide you - dont want them shouting at me ]

WOW! How helpful is this place!
Thanks Wysiwyg for your help and also your information via Pm.

Paul G,
Thanks. Yes the trainer wrote in her email that they run a roll on roll off system, which starts off with a few one to one sessions, to see what the dog needs. This sounds promising from a novice point of view, but I wanted to check with you experts. I do hope I get on well with the lady in question and that her methods are good.

Patch,
That is one informative post. Thank you so much. I will look into getting a tunnel as I think he may like that.

With the plank you suggested, can I be really thick and ask what exactly the dog should do? Do they jump on and balance along or have I got my Worzel Gummidge head on again?


I will be printing off the thread to refer to. Thanks everyone again.