I do think that the dangerous dogs should be put to sleep - for their own sake as well as that of others. And because, as you say, the other dogs, who have nowhere to go.

That's a bit of a blanket statement, but on the whole I'd stand by it.

Wys
x

I think the case for "the pot and kettle " is never more evident than the above statement .

Thats fascintating to know

I wish id seen that article

And its funny what you say, when i worked in the rescue, i went round all the local clubs to liaise with them and too see if they employed methods we could be comfortable recommending.

Their was one chap, and x policed dog trainer.
mixed training.
He preferred choke chains and no treats, but he didnt object if owners didnt use a choke or if they bought treats to class.
It was a bit 'inside a hall marching round in circles' sort of thing, but the standard was good.
But tellingly, he had such a brilliant personality and he had me and his clients laughing in fun regularly.

Then i went to see the "modern" treat/reward based trainers,

One loy would constantly huddle in a corner looking over at individuals they considered as 'hard work'.
The body langauge was a bit obvious that everyone else could see whom they were talking about.

The second lot started a brand new class.
The trainer was going thru her new class housekeeping speech.
The very first thing she does is hold up a choke chain, explain what they are, why they are wrong, and if we see anyone bringing them to class they will be thrown out!!

For yrs afterward, whenever we took in a gifted dog from and owner, we would ask if the dog had been to a class (so maybe we could phone them for any relevant history), and when we asked the owner for the club details all they could not even remember the address or the names of the trainers!

The only trainer, without fail, whose proper name and details they could recite was the x police dog trainer!

I'm pretty certain that article is in this month's Your Dog. I can try to find it and scan it for you, if you have no luck in finding it in the shops

I think trainers vary a lot. No matter how good or bad they are at dog training, I suspect their basic personality tends to come out once they are relaxed. People will know if they are really liked and if the owner really wants to help and give their best, so that the dogs and owners are helped.

Interesting what you say Kruse about the owners remembering the charismatic ex police guy. I wonder if there's any chance that gender came into that? Just tossing that idea into the pot

Wys
x

The ironic issue of "positive only" trainers who are anything but positive with anyone who disagrees with them has come up previously on this board.

Regrettable, IMO, only accepting "one truth" or one single way of doing something, irrespective of circumstances and individuals, can lead to an aggressive defensively evangelical, closed-minded outlook.

Thats really interesting KW, i knew a trainer like this, he was in charge of the area police dog training unit. He could have the most aggressive dog putty in his hands in minutes. He had this magnetism effect on dogs. They wanted to please him, they wanted to be with him, all he had to do was take the end of the lead. One of the trainers who worked with him said "there isnt a dog alive who doesnt live to please him"

I always remember him saying back then - "theres far too much of this 'making' the dog do things"

A man who in this day & age would have been a true dog whisperer - you would almost have thought he had a telepathic link with dogs, perhaps he had.

Hi wys

i dont think it was his gender, as their were other groups locally as well with male trainers.
one in particular would always be described as a vague memory of his first name, but nought else.

i think basically he made people feel welcome and that they were having fun.
the others basically made grown adults feel like they actually were at school, with all its disapproving associations.

if the trainer has poor people skills, you arent going to pay them total attention, so a lot they teach you will be quickly forgotten, even their names!
its basic simple psychology really.

in fact, the whole idea it has to be called a "dog training school" is a bit silly in my mind.

of course, you also trainers whom have the arrogance of an unbridled ego and more interested in just telling people they are always right.
that is usually a male trait, i know.

still comes down to the same thing of poor people skills at the end of the day

Although to be fair, it can be the same the other way - I've seen pro dominance/punishment groups say some very nasty things in articles on line about excellent positive trainers, for no reason other than what appears to be malice

And then you have the shock collar/prong collar supporters who seem to all be of the same sort of character (at least they are consistent with their training policies).

And some of the pos. trainers are absolutely lovely - well nown names are Sarah Whitehead, Anne Bussey, Peter Neville, Carolyn Menteith, Nina Bondarenko, Sarah Fisher, and so on.

I think that what I agree with with KWs posts is that it's important trainers have good people skills and can be aware of how they are coming across - no good for anyone to be good with dogs and ghastly with humans, that's for sure and I guess we'd all agree on that

For example, I'd never huddle in a corner talking about the owners as KW has described - that is just plain bad!
Wys
x

I agree LOL and esp. about the forgetting, and why.

I think too that making people welcome is so important, it can really mar or hinder learning progress. When I am teaching I make it my business to go round and try to talk individually with owners, never to single them out if it may make them feel embarrassed, give genuine praise (there is always something that you can find to praise and it helps give confidence) and try to remain flexible, so that for example if anyone is shy of being on their own, they can sit with their partner (as usually the handlers are on one side and other peeps the other side).

Easy to do, just requires a bit of thought and those people skills eh!

Of course, we always have to remember that many people are very different in real life to the persona they portray on internet.

For example, very rarely when photo's are posted is the image even vaguely like the image created in my mind from their posts

Often 'dry wit' can come across as nasty on internet, but quite funny in real life.

Of course, there are those who deliberately set out to be nasty on internet. Whether or not they are truly like that person they pretend to be, I don't know, but I doubt many are or they would have few, if any, friends