I asked AG which of their foods would be best for my dog, describing the problems etc., and they emailed me a lot of info about what was in it, and how it affected the dog. The one I chose was based on this - it tends to keep the dog calmer, while not producing a `high` after feeding apparently, plus being free of all the items my dog is sensitive to. I think it`s great that we can tailore feeding to the particular dog like this - in the Olden Days it was Chappie or Chum or leftovers for most pets.
However, mine get chicken wings for breakfast as I think it helps their teeth, so maybe they get the best of both worlds.

yes raw is what dogs have evolved to eat but there is also another train of thought that as they have been living with people for so long they have adapted to a more varied diet. It makes no sense to me but if this is what he has to have then this is what he has to have and there isn't much I can do about it. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I can remember several occasions last year at shows where he seemed to run out of steam, not lacking in energy but in the same way he used to lose concentration in training due to being brain tired. It seems that this is something that has been going on for a while and I just didn't pick up on it, in fact I may still not have realised except for having to defrost the freezers Deef doesn't think, he just does, I always refer to him as monkey see monkey do, he is the sort of dog that would chase a ball off a cliff and then wonder where the ground had gone Sol is different, he thinks everything through very carefully and then when he is asked to repeat it he gets it right consistently so maybe a complete food gives his brain more than raw? Deef is no different on complete because he doesn't need brain food as he doesn't use his brain I am still going to be giving them some raw but for Sol's sake they will be getting at least one meal a day of AG and I will see what happens as time goes on. I have spoken to a couple of people today that have had a similar problem so I know I am not alone and it makes no sense to them either but they currently split the meals in the same way, one raw and one complete and it works for them so I can but try. I know they all love their bones so I don't want to stop them altogether

The Domestic Dog did not 'evolve' to eat raw meat. It was domesticated from the wolf which eats raw meat but has been 'modified' by man. There is no 'natural' diet for a domestic dog other than that which we chose to feed it!
Becky

I don't see a problem feeding half raw/arden grange. I know it's said 'Don't mix kibble and raw food', but I've never had any problems doing it.

Maybe your dog will be super-duper-extra intelligent now? You'll be able to teach him to bring you a cuppa in bed every morning

You're right to an extent and if the dog does well on a certain food that's great - as I said before.

But, the Grey wolf originated about 300,000 years ago. Dog was first domesticated by man 15,000 years ago. Pet food has been around for 50 years or so. So which food has the wolf/dog been eating for longer?

Sorry., I know this isn't what the thread is about. I'll hush up now

I always thought you shouldn't mix kibble and raw together in the same meal as each digests at a different rate? I can try with the cuppa in bed but he will probably have trouble holding the cup as he has no thumbs, being a merle he is already extra super duper intelligent, didn't you know they are superior to all other collies? Not sure I am worthy....

I bet when they were first domestictaed they ate the left over COOKED meat and bones
Becky

apparently dogs and wolves split into 2 different species about 100,000 years ago which is before evidence of domestication by man but that does not mean that it had not been happening for far longer than 15,000 years ago as there is the possibility that domestication happened more than once. Wolf bones have been found in association with humans longer than 100,000 years ago

Dry dog food has only been around for about 50 years but dog food itself first appeared in the mid 1800's so it's not a new thing and neither is feeding grains and left overs to dogs

http://www.sojos.com/historyofpetfood.html

Not sure one can connect the feeding habits of the domestic dog to the sort of diet a wild wolf may eat, that would be prey animals (whole) but also fruit and veg, insects and worms, some who have studied the wolf say that most survive on carrion, insects and vegetable matter with just the occasional fresh kill. 100,000 years ago we ate much the same.

Apart from what is available to the wolf as opposed to the domestic dog they live entirely different lives so to base the husbandry of domestic dogs with the self preservation life style of wolves does seem a little too stretched to be of real use, romantic but not very helpful, anymore than it would be for us to try to feed ourselves as did our distant ancestors. Even we from the richer countries of the world would be hard put to survive on the sort of diet some remote tribes still have today, however healthy they are we would not do very well if we had to revert to a diet we left behind thousands of years ago.

Yeah, that's what I read too. Don't know how true it is because they probably digest bone and meat at different rates as well as veggies. My dog has eaten kibble and raw in the same meal (just once or twice) and it hasn't done him any harm.

Maybe if you ask him really really nicely to bring you a cuppa in bed?

About how similar dogs are to wolves - there is only 0.2% difference in their mitrochondrial DNA. That's the same amount of difference between a caucasian and an Asian. So a domesticated dog IS a wolf in the same way that caucasians and Asians are both homo sapiens. The digestive systems are the same.

In the greater scheme of things, 300,000 years is a lot longer than 130 years (which is how long you tell me commercial dog food as been available). I think it would take longer than 130 years for a dogs digestive system to evolve into something completely different from it's wolf counterpart, although I'm not a biologist so I could be wrong .

I'm not saying everyone should feed raw, it's just nice to be in possession of all the facts

I used to be of the opinion that dogs could easily digest grains, veggies etc and that this shoud be a major part of their diet. But after chatting with several people and doing a lot of reading, I found out how similar dogs are to wolves (I was very shocked!). I still give Bryan leftovers of veggies etc. but it's on top of his daily intake of meat/organs/bone.

Thanks for the discussion guys, I'm really enjoying it. It's so nice to be able to have an adult conversation on a forum Yay Dogsey!