Yeah must be so must that one highlighted of yours!

I agree totally that the crux of the matter is one of differing interpretations of what we see. As you say, most of us have watched the CM' programs but we don't all see the same thing.

You say that "most of us" don't see a person that clearly loves dogs or someone who used kind methods. Who is 'most of us' ? In my experience 'most of us' see quite clearly a compassionate dog lover with a superb ability to relate to dogs and to teach their owners to raise stable, balanced dogs.

If you think you see CM choking dogs then you'd be crazy to use his methods. That would be cruel.

The closest I've ever come to seeing anyone choking a dog wasn't on telly but in real life. Dogs pulling on the lead! I know a few people with labs that are particularly bad for that. The dogs will go blue in the tongue and make awful choking noises. I'm sure they do themselves damage. Although the dog is doing it to itself I think it is cruel to let it continue. Although some people really do struggle to stop dogs pulling. One method that is popular is to simply stop moving when the dog starts to pull. Just act like a tree and let the dog pull and choke as much as he wants. The idea is that he'll learn that if he stops pulling he'll be rewarded by being allowed to go forward. Is that cruel? Letting the dog choke itself? Peoples opinions will no doubt vary on that one. It's not a problem I've had to deal with so I don't have a firm opinion.

What the vast majority of us do not understand is how people such as yourself can read things into events that simply aren't there.

Stalemate.

See how futile this line of discussion is?

I reiterate, I've found the CM shows helpful and I've used a lot of the methods that he demonstrates (I've already explained the kind of thing that's worked for us). These approaches worked where bog-standard 'positive training methods' led to problems. Everything we do is fully compatible with positive training methods - in fact, all the steps we have taken were recommended by more than one so-called 'positive trainer'. They basically agreed with the cornerstones of what CM teaches (or perhaps I should say what 'the vast majority of us' hear/see him teaching - I accept that 'the vast majority of you see something very different ).

The trainers that I work with approve of the methods I'm using - although they don't know that I'm getting it from the CM show. They think I'm following their advice, but I find CM has a much better understanding of this kind of thing and puts it across in a way that I find easy to grasp. Whereas CM puts the relationship between dog and owner at the center of everything - a foundation so to speak, most training classes, books etc deal with training first (i.e. teaching tricks and commands). The relationship (rules, boundaries, limitations etc) seems only to be looked at as an afterthought if problems develop. In MY experience with MY dogs this is back to front. (I wouldn't be so obnoxious and self-opinionated to assume or suggest that what works for me and my dogs is at all relevant to anyone else. I'm not making recommending to others - just giving feedback on what's worked well for us).

Excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry I seem to keep reading your posts and replying
Not following you about the board

I can' t understand why it is even disagreed that he chokes dogs. He does, they don't do it to themselves. He sets them up for it in the age old fashion of tyrannical trainers who believed that dogs must submit, if not suffer the consequences.

Wys
x

I couldn't agree more.
I found this...there is no audio. Apologies if someone else has posted it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lKOjqL05-s

Scarter, I base my observations not only on my dogs but the dogs I see on a daily basis in the park, my friends dogs who I have looked after - the latest one for 3 weeks, the dogs I see in training classes, the dogs I hear about on the internet
I used Mia as an example because that is an issue she had - dosent matter why she had the issue - same with your boy - the problem wasnt why he had the issue in the first place but how you dealt with it going on in the future

Jeezzzz, you go away from the computer for a few days, and when you come back it seem the bullying accusations are still be thrown around, by the same people, I wonder why, when both contributors have stated they no longer wish to take part in this thread, but then come back with an ulterior motive, Gnasher to continue education us on CM , and CC, well, she never disappoints, likes to stir up a good fight!!





Have to agree with this, at least Gnasher likes to entertain us... with her incredible wolf dogs stories.

Gnasher , you said yourself you have been the recipient of bullies, so lets not do it a disservice,....

No one has ben bullies on this thread, there was a minority opinion of one, who supported a theory, you must expect a reaction to it.

I have been a member on a US forum, where lets say, most of the members have a love of e.collors and the use of them in training...at times I was in a minority of one , arguing my point, i was not bullied But it could get very heated. I stuck around argued my point, I also have the most powerful tool at my hands to use if I felt in any way bullied the turn off button


So lets get away from throwing trow away comments around... and get back on track.........

CM , and how cruel he is

Haha, quality. Best post of the thread so far!

Gnasher, what do you think about Ramble's link? I wont ask CC as it seems she is unable to offer fact based examples on ''why'' CM is so good but instead just insults people which is a shame.

In addition, for all those who say ''his show has helped me lots with my dog's blah blah blah'' did you not read the bit where it says ''do not try this at home'' or words to that effect?

Please Jackbox, you make me laugh. I like to stir up a good fight do I and you; you are a little sunbeam, full of happy, sweet things to say, like hell you are!!!!

Don't like my posts, then take your own advice and switch off or press ignore. If my posts are hitting a bit of a nerve, then perhaps you are in denial of the downright disgusting way some of you are behaving towards the "pros"

Oh dear, Pidge has her little claws out doesn't she!!!!
The only shame here, is that you have joined in the bitching but hey, do your best love, have a party

If you think I've insulted anyone, you are sooooooooo wrong. I've just said a few home truths. Hard for some in denial to bear.

Now, being as you are sooooooo clued up about dogs all of a sudden, perhaps you'd like to share some of your great tips! I'm all ears