Most collars have at least 7 settings - a very few are not too bad, as in they are horrible at the highest but not really awful - but most can be dialled up to be incredibly painful. Some makes go up to level 100 .... you only have to watch the daft videos on Youtube of anti barking collars etc on young male adults of the human variety to see they do flipping hurt!

In the Handbook of Applied Behaviour and Training (the author supports their use) he says that the recent devices are lightweight, have sophisiticated features and a real time dial.

However, he also says that the delivery of electronic stimulus ranges from a tingle to a highly aversive electrical event capable of producing significant pain and distress. He says that cheap collars can give unpleasant sensations and that many devices have a high-end shock (his words, not mine) that far exceeds what is "needed". At least he's honest.

A friend of mine who used electric collars (I know that sounds weird, but he was very open minded about reward methods and wanted to know more, soo! We had many discussions .. )
told me that "in the wrong hands, they are torture".

Wys
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Absolutely! It's escape/avoidance conditioning. I got so depressed when I found a gundog site in the US that actually had no qualms at all about ear pinching etc and showed videos and had dogs like automatons (when trained) and looking very submissive and desperate when being walked up to the table where they do it (toe pinching too) This was for sport and also for cups - it was truly pathetic these grown men felt it a good thing to do .

Sadly all very true.

Wys
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Er, not sure what to make of this
Why do you imagine I am assuming? and do not have any real knowedge of the subject? The only thing i've not actually done is to train a dog with an ecollar, but to be honest all that would do is give me the mechanical skill - not any more actual knowledge.

I'm not an "expert" but I have researched fully using both scientific papers and videos, talking to those on both sides who have used them and other research. I've done my research very thoroughly, even going back to finding odd obscure bits of info from years back, to more recent times with modern collars.

One of the most interesting things I found is that if I criticised any video, a few days later it would be removed from Youtube, the dodgy bit taken out (ie the bit that I spied that showed a dog walking with what I call "the ecollar walk") and put back on again, edited. Now if that doesn't say something, what does?

Yes, but that's been conditioned as a command that has been trained ... ecollars aren't used that way. They are used in one of two ways usually. Now, you could probably pair a very mild lowest level shock/stim with a command, and then just use the stimulus, but then you may as well use a whistle! And that's not what was done from what you've described.

Agree, except that the term "hardwired" tends to refer to innate/instinctive behaviours such as the predatory sequence.
LOL, that is one technique and is used most often in for example sheep chasing. There is another technique but then the way you've described it still soundsmore like the first one was used. The second uses a lower level (well, some use it lower level, but many do not!) shock which is on until the dog learns to turn it off. I have to say this I dislike more than the previous method.

There are a huge number of makes and models. It's just possible you felt one on a low level (do you recall what the level was and how many there were?). Or that the collar you were exposed to was for some reason not one that can be turned up much (unusual).

If you find out that dogs can be trained by ecollars and not be hurt, let me know and please film it all! Seriously

Wys
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