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Wysiwyg
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15-03-2011, 06:20 PM
Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
Couldn't get the vid to load on here so I went to the you tube site & viewed it & yes he does do a lot of things that I personally wouldn't even think if trying on my dogs, but it seems as though he doesn't do that anymore, I guess public opinion has changed his ways.

the issue I have with this board is it seems you guys think every thing adversive for the dog is wrong, got forbid the dog be uncomfortable even emotionally so. You guys would wet at the way I talk to Izze sometimes when she is in trouble, like a drill Sargent chews out his cadets. Of course I would never strike either one of them, use a prong or an e collar, bit when I give them a direction that I know they understand, no matter what the circumstances I expect it to be followed.

I guess MY upbringing comes into play there as I was raised by a retired army dad lol.
It does concern me a little that you cannot see that this is actually abuse, Dogdragoness. It's not about being namby pamby, it's about him setting dogs up to fail and then wanting them to physically fight with him. That is what he does.

He wants to get entertainment and has no care if the dogs are showing appeasing gestures, don't understand or are frightened.

I don't know if you saw the video I put up on here a short while ago showing that he set dogs up to be aggressive using another dog. That in itself was pretty awful as both dogs were stressed out before filming even started, then we'd see this really wound up dog, but did he explain that he'd done this himself? No

Years ago, I used harsh methods on dogs, as did many others I know who hail from my time. I found a much better way after doing some dog courses, and opening myself up to learning

So it's not us being over sensisitve - it's about knowing what one is seeing, with true knowledge and understanding.

Education is the key

Wys
x
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Ramble
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15-03-2011, 06:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fiEv...layer_embedded

sums it up for me...bit of searing though be warned!
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dogdragoness
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15-03-2011, 06:24 PM
Really lol because I have been told my many in the positive training lot that barking at my dogs in true military fashion is cruel so I don't know what to believe anymore as to what is cruel & what is not.

Goes to show the wonderful magic of editing eh? Still he isn't as bad as brad Pattison (at the end of my leash) that guy is horrible too!
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Lynn
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15-03-2011, 06:38 PM
I have just watched this somewhere else.

All those poor dogs looked confused when the kick was delivered and cowered or lowered their ears or both. I have owned a fear aggressive dog and if he had been dealt with in this way he would of either gone totally ballistic and bitten or shut down.

I don't feel any of these dogs wee out and out aggressive they were fearful, which needs dealing with completely differently. Kindness, patience and a lot of time. Learning to read a dogs body language is a good place to start and particualrly your own dogs. Also learn what sets your dog up for this kind of behavior and do not set your dog up for it if you know it will upset it and put it in that position.

It just makes me upset to see people treat animals this way it really should not be allowed.
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anig
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15-03-2011, 06:48 PM
OMG!!!!! I did not know he was like that! I cant believe he uses KICKING as a form of training, he is sick, I couldnt watch the whole vid it made me to angry!! How could the owners allow this to happen to thier dogs? He should be banned from training!
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Krusewalker
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15-03-2011, 07:07 PM
Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
I just don't think he is this evil person everyone makes him out to be. Is his show for Entertainment only? Yes, should people be trying his methods on the street, even tho that is the case sadly.

Sorry but that is my opinion, & I don't think I should be belittled & bullied for it thank you very much. Besides those clips are old, he's made an attempt at progressing since then.
what bullying and belittling.
you only had one reply at this point! mine.
i only wrote about 10 words, pointing out an irony of starting a post saying you arent going to do something, then you carry on posting doing just that.

something you hear folk do often, it makes me grin.

besides that, kicking a dog is toilet.

and if his methods arent supposed to be tried 'on the street' (as you phrase it) what is the purpose in cesar milan producing a show teaching people how to train dogs?
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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15-03-2011, 07:50 PM
Originally Posted by dogdragoness View Post
Really lol because I have been told my many in the positive training lot that barking at my dogs in true military fashion is cruel so I don't know what to believe anymore as to what is cruel & what is not.

Goes to show the wonderful magic of editing eh? Still he isn't as bad as brad Pattison (at the end of my leash) that guy is horrible too!
Shouting at dogs depends on the dogs and what it means, if shouting is always followed up by agression, then the shouting itself becomes cruel
If shouting is always followed by something nice then the dog will like it
If it is just shouting with nothing either good or bad following it then the dog will prob file it away under 'another crazy thing the human does that means nothing'
a v soft dog or an abused dog would not cope with shouting so that would be cruel

Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fiEv...layer_embedded

sums it up for me...bit of searing though be warned!
lol so true and so funny
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Tarimoor
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15-03-2011, 08:07 PM
Apols as I haven't had chance to read through all the responses, the initial link is appalling, but then I am not a CM fan. But, and I say this hesitantly, kicking a dog off, is used in training very effectively, but it isn't kicking a dog as shown in the videos, it's more pushing a dog away to make it spring back at you for a reward. I use this as a reward for my dogs, and it's very effective, it more involves almost kneeling into your dog, anticipating when they perhaps will jump for a retrieve reward and blocking them, not kicking them. That drives up the reward factor, and takes training up a gear, a useful tool, not something to punish your dog with.
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Azz
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15-03-2011, 10:19 PM
I am SHOCKED

As far as I am concerned that is dog abuse!!!!

I would imagine kicks like that are actually just as, if not more painful than front footed kicks - because your heal is heavier than your forefoot (which your dog can also see coming and avoid!)

If he did that on a TV show here he would have been arrested for animal abuse.
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DevilDogz
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15-03-2011, 10:28 PM
The man is a beast, I would like to give him one swift kick where the sun dont shine! evil, vile man.

I wonder how many dogs he 'trains' go on to be foot shy? Why is kicking any different to slapping a dog? To me its not.
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