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Hali
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Hali is offline  
Location: Scottish Borders
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,902
Female 
 
16-10-2009, 10:22 AM
Originally Posted by Labman View Post
Yes I do, but then I have had extensive training by highly experienced professionals.
In respect of a very particular set of dogs for a very particular purpose. Just because it may work for puppies doesn't mean that it will work for grown dogs, particularly those that don't know you and you don't know them.

Had I tried to 'place' any of my rescue dogs on the floor on their side when I first got them, at worst I would've got bitten, at best I would have severely hampered the building of trust. Yes, I can now do this with them, but it would certainly not be one of the first things that I would try and to be honest, I think it is potentially dangerous to encourage a person to do this with a strange fully grown adult dog.
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rich c
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16-10-2009, 10:26 AM
Rocky will look to you for leadership if he is to settle and become or remain a happy balanced dog. I find it helpful to have a mental picture, if you like, of my dog seeing me as the pack leader. As you'll have noticed, this is controversial... I personally find my visualisation of myself as pack leader fits better with my view of our Lab Jake being part of the family rather than a human/canine - owner/property analogy.

SO, as pack leader be firm, fair, consistent and look after him. That way, I believe he'll respect you and settle down.
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Meg
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16-10-2009, 10:28 AM
Ok as some of you know I shall be getting my first dog soon, his name is Rocky and he is a GSD.The problem that I am having or should I say what I overlooked at is that Rocky is four year's old and will be leaving his old home to hopefully spend the rest of his days with me but will he adapt to his new home plus would he see me as the topdog or Alpha male, leader of the pack you get what I mean ,or would he see me as a lower rank compared to his old master
Hi Redrum I would forget all the outdated 'top dog alpha male ' stuff and concentrate on making Rocky your friend. If you make a hew human friend I am sure you don't worry about being the 'alpha male' and 'top dog' but how best you can both get along

What would I do if Rocky was coming to me? Firstly I would ask very little of him for the first week or so and give him time to adjust and to bond with you, ignore him while he potters around getting used to the smells and the house.
Try to establish a routine fairly quickly so he will be given a sense of the familiar and a little security (meals/walks/bed at the same time). If possible I would take him out for frequent short walks to begin with to establish the times he prefers to eliminate .
If you leave him alone leave an article of old clothing you have worn so your scent remains with him.
Give lots of praise whenever you can eg when he sits, lays down, is just sitting quietly so he is learns which behaviour brings the reward of your praise.
Try sitting on the floor and gently playing with him . Have some high value treats like chicken pieces, throw one a distance away and after he has eaten it show him another and as he comes to get it (not before) add the words 'Come Rocky' so he learns coming to you is a rewarding experience.
If he does something you don't want him to do distract from or ignore it, don't shout or punish him, he needs to learn to trust not fear you.
With a little patience and understanding It shouldn't take long for Rocky to fit in and feel at home . Good luck...
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Evie
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16-10-2009, 10:33 AM
Is it Dog Training Ireland you are going to in Dublin? They are excellent and will give you lots of great advice.

Just take it slowly. Keep some dried food in your pocket (out of the daily food amount) to reward all positive behaviours. Remember some things will have been allowed in his old home that won't be allowed in yours. Guide him in the right direction.

If the dog is coming directly from it's old home it may worry and pine for it's owner for awhile. But with kindnesss, love and time it will come to know that it's new home is a wonderful place to live with wonderful people.

You do not need to prove yourself to be "top dog". GSD are pretty intellegent and know that we aren't dogs.

Labman, with all due respect to you and the organisation you volunteer for; I also volunteer for a similar organisation here in the UK and they would not advocate those training methods you mention of restraining dogs etc.

EDIT TO ADD: Brilliant advice as always from Minihaha.
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rich c
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16-10-2009, 10:44 AM
See it all depends on your interpretation of pack leader/alpha male etc. Some see it as meaning being pretty much a bully. In my opinion, it means provider and protector and to a certain extend friend but not best buddy until the relationship is secure & on your terms!

Having said that, you know what they liken opinions to & everybody having one.....
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ClaireandDaisy
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16-10-2009, 12:23 PM
Ugh! Man Lead! Man Alpha!
I prefer the role of human being with a companion animal who I train. Not quite as snappy but at least I don`t have to pretend I`m a dog....
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Trouble
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16-10-2009, 12:32 PM
Originally Posted by rich c View Post
See it all depends on your interpretation of pack leader/alpha male etc. Some see it as meaning being pretty much a bully. In my opinion, it means provider and protector and to a certain extend friend but not best buddy until the relationship is secure & on your terms!

Having said that, you know what they liken opinions to & everybody having one.....
I kind of agree, to me I take on parental responsibility for my dogs just as I did my kids. It's my job to provide for them, protect them and teach them what is and is not acceptable in life. I see leadership as showing the way, it has diddly to do with bullying etc. I love and nurture my dogs just as I did my kids to make them fully rounded, well adjusted individuals capable of dealing with whatever life chucks at them. I have fun with them but I'm not their best buddy, I'm much more of a parent than a friend.
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rich c
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16-10-2009, 01:29 PM
Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
Ugh! Man Lead! Man Alpha!
Missed the point nicely there! OK, my bad. Alpha Female and/or Male. <Delete as appropriate>

Trouble put it well. It's a parental type role. Bear in mind that dogs are wolves that have been adapted by man to retain puppy/cub like behaviours so adoptive parents is a very good comparison.

Lastly it's better to think of yourself in a surrogate dog role than it is to think of your dog as human! Hands up anyone who's seen VERY confused and unbalanced dogs because they get treated too much like children...
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ClaireandDaisy
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16-10-2009, 02:35 PM
Are you calling me a female dog, Rich person? Not very nice.
I`m not a dog. I`m not even a mummy to a dog. My dogs are not my children - they`re animals - worthy of respect and decent treatment.
I`ve never understood the I am Pack Leader thing. And I`ve rarely heard a woman voice it.
If you had horses, would be Leader of the Herd? How about if you had parrots?
This thread is way OT!
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annmarie
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16-10-2009, 02:53 PM
Originally Posted by Minihaha View Post
Hi Redrum I would forget all the outdated 'top dog alpha male ' stuff and concentrate on making Rocky your friend. If you make a hew human friend I am sure you don't worry about being the 'alpha male' and 'top dog' but how best you can both get along

What would I do if Rocky was coming to me? Firstly I would ask very little of him for the first week or so and give him time to adjust and to bond with you, ignore him while he potters around getting used to the smells and the house.
Try to establish a routine fairly quickly so he will be given a sense of the familiar and a little security (meals/walks/bed at the same time). If possible I would take him out for frequent short walks to begin with to establish the times he prefers to eliminate .
If you leave him alone leave an article of old clothing you have worn so your scent remains with him.
Give lots of praise whenever you can eg when he sits, lays down, is just sitting quietly so he is learns which behaviour brings the reward of your praise.
Try sitting on the floor and gently playing with him . Have some high value treats like chicken pieces, throw one a distance away and after he has eaten it show him another and as he comes to get it (not before) add the words 'Come Rocky' so he learns coming to you is a rewarding experience.
If he does something you don't want him to do distract from or ignore it, don't shout or punish him, he needs to learn to trust not fear you.
With a little patience and understanding It shouldn't take long for Rocky to fit in and feel at home . Good luck...
this is how we integrated talia into our home and she is a joy now suits us anyway xxx.. we pretty much let her sit and watch us for the first four days so she could kinda get the hang of things on her first night i tried to show her were to sleep and her own special place but she was bewildered till tux our other dog woofed her i was amased when she dived on her bed the wonder of dogs xx
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