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SLB
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17-12-2010, 05:18 PM
Originally Posted by TabithaJ View Post
SARA 'N' SCOUT:

I think I may have been unclear or maybe I'm using the word 'correct' wrongly?

Our trainer does not advocate any punishment; I would never agree to that.

When I say 'correct' I mean she tells me to tug/pop the lead and command 'heel' very firmly when Dex is about to lunge.
But distraction is a better and pain free way - I felt horrible using a choke chain on Benjie when I first started un-training his learnt behaviour..so changed to a head collar and treats - now at first Dexter may be too busy for treats to distract him thats why I walk away.

Louie is a difficult case for me as my other two have fallen into a straight heel position but Louie being my first puppy - I have to work harder but I do love it - I find myself constantly going in circles but it's slowly paying off and I'm finding less and less rope burns on my hands everyday

Just keep going and you will get there..normally finding what works best for the dog is better, I tried headcollars with Louie they went in his eyes and I have a harness but I need to get one with a ring on the front - that may be what you can get for Dexter - the front ring turns the dog away from what they are pulling towards and it wont put any strain on the neck or head like a collar or a halti does
But getting what works for you and your dog is key, I found with Louie - turning in circles worked as well as a Look command, Benjie - a head collar and Sadie - well she's perfect
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ClaireandDaisy
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17-12-2010, 05:22 PM
Originally Posted by TabithaJ View Post
SARA 'N' SCOUT:

I think I may have been unclear or maybe I'm using the word 'correct' wrongly?

Our trainer does not advocate any punishment; I would never agree to that.

When I say 'correct' I mean she tells me to tug/pop the lead and command 'heel' very firmly when Dex is about to lunge.
Yanking a dogs neck and shouting is punishment in my book.
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Ramble
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17-12-2010, 05:28 PM
I have to say I disagree with turning the dog away, especially if this is fear based. If I was scared of something and I saw it the last thing I would want to do is look away from it, I want to see where it is and keep my beady eye on it thankyou very much indeed! So why ask a fearful dog to look at you or turn away from something that totally freaks it out???
I would suggest there are 2 other things you can do. First, you can be aware that when your dog sees another dog it is going to have a HUGE surge of adrenalin...and that adrenalin could do with being used up,the last thing he will want to do is sit still....so occupy him. Run with him. Or if he is food motivated (and he's a lab so having a wild guess I would think eh is) then throw treats on the floor a little infront of him, big enough that he will want it....and that he will have to move to get it. If he shows no interest then let him sniff it (put it to his nose) then throw it. This is a trial and error process and takes a lot of control with the lead in one hand and awareness of your own throwing capabilities...as you don't want him ending up on the road. This then uses up some of the adrenalin and will help him to stop associating seeing another dog with lunging and getting over excited, over time, he will associate them with you offering food. It does work,it has really helped us with Tango.
At the same time you can work with him with dogs in the distance. I used to sit in the park (and still do at times) and do some TTouches with our lunging girl, with her facing dogs, but at a distance where she was ok. I would also (thanks to Mishflynn on here) put her in a sit between my legs, facing out, tickling her and rewarding her when she saw another dog, as it meant she could still see the dog but knew that it was me that was actually in control of the situation. Whilst she was sitting still this tended to be when another dog would approach her in the park, I rewarded her for calm behaviour....

It takes lots of different tactics and approaches and you need to work out whats best for her. I would advise against tugging on the lead and expecting a heel...but then I don't walk my dogs to heel when we are out, they are allowed to sniff and lead the walk....
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Ramble
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17-12-2010, 05:31 PM
I would also say (probably a little controversially) if your dog has a very stressful walk...and has lunged a lot or had dogs charge, his adrenalin and stress levels are going to be raised for the rest of the day, if not into the next day (as are yours). If that's happened I wouldn't take him out for another walk that day...I would work with him in the house/garden and not do the same walk the following day, just to allow him to calm down.
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SLB
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17-12-2010, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I have to say I disagree with turning the dog away, especially if this is fear based. If I was scared of something and I saw it the last thing I would want to do is look away from it, I want to see where it is and keep my beady eye on it thankyou very much indeed! So why ask a fearful dog to look at you or turn away from something that totally freaks it out???
I would suggest there are 2 other things you can do. First, you can be aware that when your dog sees another dog it is going to have a HUGE surge of adrenalin...and that adrenalin could do with being used up,the last thing he will want to do is sit still....so occupy him. Run with him. Or if he is food motivated (and he's a lab so having a wild guess I would think eh is) then throw treats on the floor a little infront of him, big enough that he will want it....and that he will have to move to get it. If he shows no interest then let him sniff it (put it to his nose) then throw it. This is a trial and error process and takes a lot of control with the lead in one hand and awareness of your own throwing capabilities...as you don't want him ending up on the road. This then uses up some of the adrenalin and will help him to stop associating seeing another dog with lunging and getting over excited, over time, he will associate them with you offering food. It does work,it has really helped us with Tango.
At the same time you can work with him with dogs in the distance. I used to sit in the park (and still do at times) and do some TTouches with our lunging girl, with her facing dogs, but at a distance where she was ok. I would also (thanks to Mishflynn on here) put her in a sit between my legs, facing out, tickling her and rewarding her when she saw another dog, as it meant she could still see the dog but knew that it was me that was actually in control of the situation. Whilst she was sitting still this tended to be when another dog would approach her in the park, I rewarded her for calm behaviour....

It takes lots of different tactics and approaches and you need to work out whats best for her. I would advise against tugging on the lead and expecting a heel...but then I don't walk my dogs to heel when we are out, they are allowed to sniff and lead the walk....
The dog then learns to trust that you as it's owner is there to trust therefore will learn to ignore what it is scared of and trust in the handler/owner to keep them safe.

But like I said in my last post - it takes what works for the handler and the dog before you get results - either with methods or tools
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Ramble
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17-12-2010, 05:36 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
The dog then learns to trust that you as it's owner is there to trust therefore will learn to ignore what it is scared of and trust in the handler/owner to keep them safe.

But like I said in my last post - it takes what works for the handler and the dog before you get results - either with methods or tools
I do agree that the dog needs to do that, but I think it comes later in the training, not at the start...initially the dog needs to learn to be calm around the thing it is scared of...
I would want to be able to see the thing I was scared of even IF someone I trusted was there saying look at me instead! No matter how much I loved or trusted someone when I am THAT scared I need to deal with it myself initially. The dog needs to start not having the adrenalin surge...and to do that it needs to associate the fearful thing with something good...and have the adrenalin countered...
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Ramble
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17-12-2010, 05:41 PM
I would also be wary of using a headcollar on a dog who lunges violently as you could injure him...I would use a harness with a front ring so you have more control over the dogs body rather than the head and therefore the neck.
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SLB
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17-12-2010, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
I do agree that the dog needs to do that, but I think it comes later in the training, not at the start...initially the dog needs to learn to be calm around the thing it is scared of...
I would want to be able to see the thing I was scared of even IF someone I trusted was there saying look at me instead! No matter how much I loved or trusted someone when I am THAT scared I need to deal with it myself initially. The dog needs to start not having the adrenalin surge...and to do that it needs to associate the fearful thing with something good...and have the adrenalin countered...
But taking the dog away and allowing him chance to calm down worked for Benjie and he would pass the object/subject in question without much fuss afterwards - well after many attempts - but we got there - haven't got there with dogs just yet though.

And yes when you are terrified you do have to deal with it yourself but wouldn't you agree it's easier for you to go through that with someone you already trust?
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Ramble
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17-12-2010, 05:44 PM
Originally Posted by SLB View Post
But taking the dog away and allowing him chance to calm down worked for Benjie and he would pass the object/subject in question without much fuss afterwards - well after many attempts - but we got there - haven't got there with dogs just yet though.

And yes when you are terrified you do have to deal with it yourself but wouldn't you agree it's easier for you to go through that with someone you already trust?
No I wouldn't. If someone or something is that scared they have gone into fight mode (thus lunging and warning the scary thing away) I think they become oblivious to who or what is around them, indeed having someone with you that you care about can make it worse as you also start to protect.....
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SLB
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17-12-2010, 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble View Post
No I wouldn't. If someone or something is that scared they have gone into fight mode (thus lunging and warning the scary thing away) I think they become oblivious to who or what is around them, indeed having someone with you that you care about can make it worse as you also start to protect.....
We can agree to disagree right?
I mean my dog used to go into a fight mode with lorries and bikes but my methods worked and CAD did the same or similar with Daisy and that worked and you and Tango (?) did it your way and that has also worked.
Like I have said before it depends on the dog and handler - we both have suggested ways that have worked for us, the OP can choose to use them both for a period of time and see which one she/her dog prefers and which one gets results
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