Hmmm ... I kind of see the point. But perhaps there's just not good enough reason to give something up to the son, if he doesn't do training and reward with nice things regularly then the dog may not see anything to be gained here.

I think if swapsies are made every time something like this happens, Tyler will be only too happy to give up something for your son as he will anticipate something nicer in return.

IMO he shouldnt need a reason, he should do as he is told.

What about if that something when he is out and you have nothing to "swap?" Thats nothing more than a bribe to me, the dog should not be showing aggression to his family whom he lives with IMO.

All my dogs used to growl if I took anything off them but I just said a firm "NO" and took whatever it was off them anyway. It soon subsided and now I can remove anything from them and they just accept it. Guinness is work in progress but he's doing really well. I think they now realise that resistance is futile!!
I only taught them to be tolerant as I have a son with severe special needs and didn't want him taking a ball from them and them growling at him in case they bit him. Now they just don't care and see it as a game.

I will be honest I didn't hear him growl,so whether or not Luke wasn't entirely truthful because he was wary about taking the lid off him I'm not sure,he was badly bitten when younger.

I mean a lid of a pie isn't as valuable as a chicken carcus, and he never growled at me when I took both off him but I always use the drop it command,I don't think Luke used a command so therefore Tyler wouldn't know he had to give his lid up,not excusing his behaviour if he did growl though.

He's nearly 5 years and never growled before and seems out of character....

So what about training? You ask a dog to sit and in return give a treat. Eventually you don't have to give the treat when you ask for the sit.

This is the first time (by the sound of it) this behaviour has been observed and so training should start as of now and I don't see the problem with 'bribery' to train a different behaviour in place of this unwanted behaviour. Eventually the treat will not be needed.

In such circumstances I would just tell mine firmly and loudly to "Put it down" and they do. It's a command that comes in handy as BD says what do you do if you have nothing to hand to swap, not that I do swapsies anyway, under normal circumstances I would tell them to give and they do but stolen items get the "Put it down" command and that way once it's on the floor you can tell them to "leave it" and you can retrieve it.

swapsies is a fun and non confrontational way imo of learning the 'give' command or whatever name you put to it,its not meant to be a permanent fixture

I do the same with mine that know the command well and know I mean it.
As Bear was a new addition, no amount of firm, loud commands would have persuaded him to drop a high value prize.
It's far less risky I think to get a dog to drop something by giving them something better and then rewarding them highly, than trying to command/intimidate a dog into dropping something.

I think with people who aren't the main 'handler', if you like (terrible term but can't think of another), there needs to be some reward-based training to set the standard that it's a good thing to listen and do as they're told.

I know Bear, when we first got him, would look at us with a 'yeah, right!' kind of look if we asked him to sit, but after lots of reward-based training he can't get his bum down quick enough, treat or not. He knew the command from his previous owner, that much was clear but he was damned if he was going to do as we told him right off the mark.

Lol I know what it is, but I don't do it because I see no reason to.

i know the ops dog isnt a pup ,but how would you teach a pup to drop it or leave it?.... im with you.. my dogs drop and leave but its how i got there with a couple of my dogs