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montysmum
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04-06-2010, 01:21 PM

Raw diet advice

back from holidays now so am going to put Bobby onto a raw diet now but want to make sure I am doing the right thing, and giving him the right stuff.

I have decided that to start with I would like to start with the Prize Choice packs - they are easy go get from P@H and he has a tendency to 'hoover' up his kibble and hardly chews so I would be worried if I gave him chicken legs etc. I would be grateful if you could answer some questions for me regarding this form of diet.

1. How much meat per meal should I feed a dog of his size and age? (15 week old weighs about 8lb)

2. Do I need to add fruit and vegetables to the meat every meal?

3. What fruit and vegetables are best to use?

4. How much of the fruit and veg mulch do I need to add to each meat meal?

5. Do I need to add rice or potatoes to provide carbohydrates, and if so how much?

6. How often do I need to supplement the diet with things like cottage cheese, liver, eggs etc

I am sorry there are so many questions but I want to make sure that I am doing the right thing.
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wilbar
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04-06-2010, 02:56 PM
I'll try to answer from my own research & what i've found my dogs thrive on, but this is with the caveat that all dogs are different so it can take a bit of trial & error to get the quantities right & find what suits your dog.

1. I'm not sure of the weight of meat you should feed such a young dog but I think someone else has an answer.

2, 3 & 4. No you don't need to add fruit & veg to very meal. My dogs are labs weighing 27 & 34 kgs & I give them about a tablespoon of raw juiced up veggies about twice a week mixed with their minced meat. They don't like fruit but will pick their own ripe blackberries when in season. If you are giving veggies then it's best to put them through a juicer & give both the pulp & juice. Dogs aren't very efficient about breaking down the cellulose surrounding plant cells but juicing the veggies is the best way to break them down so the dog can access the nutirents. I concentrate on green leafy veggies like spinach, kale, broccoli, spring greens, but also add carrots, sweet potates, squuash & courgettes.

5. I don't add rice, potatoes or pasta as i don't believe dogs need much in the way of carbs & they couldn't digest these thimgs without them being cooked which sort of defeats the object of a raw diet. But my dogs have Nature Diet in the mornings (for my convenience) which contains rice so I don't think moderate quantities of cooked carbs will do too much harm.

6. Raw eggs & cottage cheese can add variety to the diet & are good sources of protein but I would only give them maybe once a week as mine have plenty of protein in their meat. I do feed offal in the form of liver, kidneys & heart. My dogs don't particularly like it raw so I just blanch it boiling water for a few seconds, & leave to cool, then chop it up & freeze in portion sizes.

One of the major parts of a raw/BARF/Prey Model diet is the raw meaty bones ~ very good for dental health & jaw exercise. So perhaps give bones a few times a week. If you are worried that your young dog won't be able to chew or handle bones very well, what about buying/getting hold of some large beef or pork bones that he couldn't swallow so he has to learn to chew on them. Once he gets the hang of it he'll be fine.

Best of luck with the raw feeding. I can recommend the books by Ian Billinghurst & Tom Lonsdale of you want to know more.
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montysmum
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04-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Thanks for your reply.

I have been looking again on the UK BARF website and have found the info I missed previously. They recommend

" * Dogs should be fed on a variety of raw meat and bones. Just sticking to one meat source is no good – you don’t get all your nutrients. Do not feed pork. If your dog has a skin or bowel problem, do not feed beef initially until you know that this will not cause hypersensitivity.
* Quantities – for every 10kg weight, a dog should eat about 100-150g meat and twice this volume in fruit and veg. This is only a guideline to start. If your dog is gaining weight, reduce quantities, if they are loosing, increase.
* For every handful of meat, feed 2 handfuls of liquidised raw veg*. A bit like the old ‘meat and two veg’ adage! If you do not think you can feed the variety, contact the practice and we can supply a very good supplement called Pet Plus for Dogs (contact the practice to be sent some). Nuts, herbs and cooked beans should be added to the ‘veg’ portion. .
* Feed raw bones once or twice weekly.(RAW bones are easily chewed and digested. It is very unlikely, but not impossible that bones will get stuck in the gut. If you do NOT give bones to clean teeth, however, a general anaesthetic for dental work is very likely).
* Feed offal (either kidney, heart, lung or liver) once a week instead of meat. Remember, wild animals come with offal alongside the meat. It is a necessary part (however distasteful) of a balanced diet. Vary the organ meat weekly.
* Do not feed cereals (mixer biscuits or treats). * Take any veges, especially green leaved ones, fruit and salad items and place in the liquidiser. You can use just one or two ingredients at any one liquidising, but make sure you have variety from week to week. Blend to a rough broth. Add some water to give a liquid texture, if necessary. Pour on the meat in a 1:2 ratio by volume, meat to veg. If your dog is ill or old, you may take a few days to more gradually change the regime to raw.
"


This regime would mean that I should start giving Bobby approx 80g of meat, and approx 160g mushed fruit and veggies, but that seems a Hell of a lot of veg for a little thing!
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Gnasher
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04-06-2010, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by montysmum View Post
Thanks for your reply.

I have been looking again on the UK BARF website and have found the info I missed previously. They recommend

" * Dogs should be fed on a variety of raw meat and bones. Just sticking to one meat source is no good – you don’t get all your nutrients. Do not feed pork. If your dog has a skin or bowel problem, do not feed beef initially until you know that this will not cause hypersensitivity.
* Quantities – for every 10kg weight, a dog should eat about 100-150g meat and twice this volume in fruit and veg. This is only a guideline to start. If your dog is gaining weight, reduce quantities, if they are loosing, increase.
* For every handful of meat, feed 2 handfuls of liquidised raw veg*. A bit like the old ‘meat and two veg’ adage! If you do not think you can feed the variety, contact the practice and we can supply a very good supplement called Pet Plus for Dogs (contact the practice to be sent some). Nuts, herbs and cooked beans should be added to the ‘veg’ portion. .
* Feed raw bones once or twice weekly.(RAW bones are easily chewed and digested. It is very unlikely, but not impossible that bones will get stuck in the gut. If you do NOT give bones to clean teeth, however, a general anaesthetic for dental work is very likely).
* Feed offal (either kidney, heart, lung or liver) once a week instead of meat. Remember, wild animals come with offal alongside the meat. It is a necessary part (however distasteful) of a balanced diet. Vary the organ meat weekly.
* Do not feed cereals (mixer biscuits or treats). * Take any veges, especially green leaved ones, fruit and salad items and place in the liquidiser. You can use just one or two ingredients at any one liquidising, but make sure you have variety from week to week. Blend to a rough broth. Add some water to give a liquid texture, if necessary. Pour on the meat in a 1:2 ratio by volume, meat to veg. If your dog is ill or old, you may take a few days to more gradually change the regime to raw.
"


This regime would mean that I should start giving Bobby approx 80g of meat, and approx 160g mushed fruit and veggies, but that seems a Hell of a lot of veg for a little thing!
It is indeed ! Are you sure you read that bit correctly? That is far too much veg matter. Your dog will have horrendous diarrhoea if he eats that much pureed veg and fruit. I have a very large dog - a Mal x HUsky - weighing in at around 100 lbs plus - and he only has about a tablespoon of raw pureed veg every day in his dinner. He is only fed once a day, at night, and he has a tablespoon of the puree plus a large cod liver oil capsule or EPA capsule mixed in. Every day he has a couple of raw chicken wings, plus some sort of RMB - sometimes part of a turkey neck, or a bit of breast of lamb on the bone, but RMB's are a major part of the diet.
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montysmum
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04-06-2010, 07:53 PM
I just copied and pasted that from the website, but I have just realised I am mixing up my kg and lbs when doing the working out

Bobby weighs 8lb, which is about 3.6kg (I think). So he should get 34g of meat, and approx 69g of fruit/veg.

Think I have worked that out right now - anyone tell that maths was not my best subject?!!!
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Gnasher
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04-06-2010, 08:01 PM
Originally Posted by montysmum View Post
I just copied and pasted that from the website, but I have just realised I am mixing up my kg and lbs when doing the working out

Bobby weighs 8lb, which is about 3.6kg (I think). So he should get 34g of meat, and approx 69g of fruit/veg.

Think I have worked that out right now - anyone tell that maths was not my best subject?!!!
Lol !! I am crap at maths too !!

But there still seems to be way too much fruit/veg - Tai has a pound plus of raw muscle meat, with only a tablespoon of pureed veg and maybe some fruit mixed in.
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lozzibear
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05-06-2010, 11:05 PM
Originally Posted by montysmum View Post
I just copied and pasted that from the website, but I have just realised I am mixing up my kg and lbs when doing the working out

Bobby weighs 8lb, which is about 3.6kg (I think). So he should get 34g of meat, and approx 69g of fruit/veg.

Think I have worked that out right now - anyone tell that maths was not my best subject?!!!
im new to feeding raw too, so im not that much help that way ... but i think the amount being fed (per kg of weight) is higher for pups. ive read that 2-3% of the dogs bodyweight should be fed but for pups it is 10%, not sure if that is correct though, it was on a website. i can send you the link if you want it. or maybe someone else knows how much it is...
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Wozzy
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06-06-2010, 10:36 AM
I'm not really sure how much you should feed pups as mine were on good old kibble when they were little. I do know for an adult dog it's 2-3% of their ideal body weight as Lozzi said. Actually, just read something that says feed your pup 2-3% of his expected adult body weight

Not sure about the pork bit also. I've read many times statements saying do not feed your dogs raw pork. I've also read an equal number of times statements saying pork is fine. My lot have pork on a regular basis and have never suffered any detrimental effects. I do make sure it's human grade, British pork though.

I'm in agreement with the others that those veg values seem too high. I dont feed veg myself but it's normally only a couple of teaspoons with the meal and I dont think thats every meal neither.
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montysmum
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06-06-2010, 01:58 PM
Thanks for all the help. I will give him more meat and less veg than recommended on that site as it does seem a bit much.

Thats the thing with the internet isn't it - you read all sorts of info, all telling you different things and it is hard to know what is really the best to follow.

I have given him some Prize Choice fish today and just a small amount of veggies and he loved it - kept going back to his bowl to see if there was any more there which is a good sign
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wilbar
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07-06-2010, 06:45 AM
I think that the advice on not feeding raw pork has been distilled & altered over time from the raw feeding books by the 2 aussie vets, Ian Billinghurst & Tom Lonsdale. But this was because the pigs/kangaroos/sheep in Australia could catch hyadatid tapeworms that could be passed onto dogs (& humans).

It is rare in the UK & if you are feeding bones, raw meat & offal from a butcher or supermarket that is of human quality, there is no (or negligible) risk. Your dog is far more likely to get worms from sniffing other infected poo, or from wildlife that it may catch or mouth.

Worms in meat & offal can be killed by freezing for a couple of weeks but it must be frozen to minus 20C ~ & you'd have to be sure that your freezer & all its contents reached this very low temperature.
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