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Call for ban on electric shock collars

...has received 236 comments (page 2)
sandgrubber
Dogsey Junior
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 154
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 12:30 PM
A properly used e-collar delivers a very mild stimulus, which may be slightly annoying to the dog but not painful. A good trainer will have users try the collar out on themselves before they use it on the dog. Well constructed e-collars have at least 30, sometimes 127 levels of stimulus. The first step in e-collar training involves finding the minimum stimulus required to get the dog's attention. This varies greatly between dogs. A good trainer will stop people from working at any level of stim that causes the dog to show signs of pain. These are shock collars only when used by a brutal trainer or a brutal owner.

It makes more sense to ban idiots! If you want to torture your dog there are many ways to do it. A choke chain will do just fine. Or a big stick. Or a booted foot.

There is one place where e-collars, used to deliver a stimulus that qualifies as a shock, are life-savers. If you have a dog who goes after snakes and live in an area where there are many poisonous snakes, learning to associate snakes with a shock is likely to save the dog's life. Similarly, if your dog has, say, killed a lamb or sheep, or a cat, and you need to prevent further encounters, aversion training may be a much better option than surrendering the dog or putting it to sleep.

Note, I gave my e-collar away years ago. It was an encumberance I didn't need for the level of training I take my dogs to. But I never felt that using it was unkind.
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Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,957
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 12:33 PM
Sorry, but the putting the dog to sleep option has long been worn out. There are so many kinder ways to train a dog. I do find it interesting that those in favour of the collars tend to compare them to a choke chain or big stick to try to prove they are a better option. Nope! Not in my opinion. All three are just totally wrong
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sandgrubber
Dogsey Junior
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 154
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 02:02 PM
Chris
Have a look at cause of death statistics for, say, the Am. Staffordshire Terrier at:
http://jalostus.kennelliitto.fi/frmT...?R=286&Lang=en

You'll find that pts for behavioral reasons is a more common cause of death than cancer! And accidents are a yet bigger cause of death.

I'm not saying e-collars are a good solution for these problems. AmStaff problems are often aggression related, and e-collars do not have a good record for curbing DA or HA behaviors. But it is naive to think pts for behavioral reasons has 'been worn out', and the number of dogs who are lost to accidents could be greatly reduced by better training for recall under distraction (one of the things where properly used e-collars have a good success rate).
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Chris
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 6,957
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 02:29 PM
I don't think I was too clear, When I said the 'putting the dog to sleep' option was worn out, I meant specifically relating to the e-collar debate.

You are quite right in your assertion that the statistics for euthanasia for behavioural reasons are high, but that statistic will remain the same whether or not the e-collar is banned.

Training recall under distraction is a feature of many, if not most training classes. It is included in the KC Good citizens tests and is a general criteria for any good training club. Honestly, e-collars really are not necessary for it
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Jackie
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
13-01-2015, 04:20 PM
But I never felt that using it was unkind.
People who use them never do.....two wrongs don't make a right.
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mjfromga
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,680
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 05:23 PM
I've seen the collars used well and the dogs responding pretty happily. Have a look around and you'll see videos of dogs being trained with e-collars that don't seem to be suffering at all. They seem to be just fine and the training session is lively and fun looking. That being said, you'd have to wonder why the E-collar was really needed.
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Gnasher
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 05:24 PM
I am still waiting Jackie for a response from you as to what YOU would have done with a dog with perianal fistulas who was eating his backside and advice from the vet was he will have to be euthanised if you cannot stop him doing this.
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Gnasher
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 05:26 PM
Myra - believe me, certainly my dog has never suffered. I cannot and will not get into the debate about e collars being cruel.

I just want someone to tell me what THEY would have done were Ben their dog and it was death or e collar.
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Gnasher
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
Female 
 
13-01-2015, 05:52 PM
Chris? What would YOU have done - I am sick to the back teeth of being told I am cruel when no-one can actually tell me what I should have done that I had not done already.

Actually, I tell a lie. There was one thing I could have done ... sat up with the dog all night long, never falling asleep, night after night for as long as it took to make him stop.

I wonder how many people would have done this when a simple choice was available that was effective and NOT cruel.
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Jackie
Dogsey Veteran
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
Female  Diamond Supporter 
 
13-01-2015, 06:14 PM
Ghasher.... Let's not make this thread all about you and your success with the e.collar....AGAIN!!!

Sorry I did not know you were WAITING for a response from me.....

What would I have done, I don't know , tried something other than inflicting pain on an already stressed out dog probably !!
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