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Canine K9
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Location: NW England UK
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01-12-2013, 07:26 PM

Reactiveness- Any advice?

Bailey is a reactive dog. He is way more reactive in the dark but is normally reactive too
-motorbikes
-anything motorbike sounding
-other dogs sometimes (he`ll lunge and bark/growl sometimes, but mostly its high pitched "EEEEEEEEEEE" and won`t move) I`m not 100% about the first part but the second one is because he loves dogs and wants to play (he is never allowed offlead, I`ve been trying for the past year to get him a good recall with little success)

Has anyone any advice or experience please?
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Baxter8
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01-12-2013, 08:58 PM
Bailey being the smaller of your two dogs? Both beautiful btw.

When you say reactive to motorbikes - does he try to chase, become aggressive, lunge, shake/tremble?

Attempting to get him good recall over the course of a year seems a long time! Has he been offlead at all?

One suggestion I saw somewhere is to get a recording of a motorbike and play it back to him on very low volume and increase very slowly, that will get him use to the noise, I would google BAT and introduce him to the sight of motorbikes very slowly. Not sure if it is prey drive chasing/reaction or fear. Need more information really.
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Mattie
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01-12-2013, 09:19 PM
Have you had his ears and eyes tested? I think I would have these tested before working with my dog.

For recall this is how I teach it, people teach it differently and I have to adapt it to suit the dog.


Recall


To have a good recall with your dog you need to have good recall in your house and garden before working outside in various places. It is very important to set our dogs up to succeed with recall, there is nothing worse than trying to call our dogs back and them not coming or worse coming so far or running round us. Only coming so far or running round us is a sign there is another problem which need to be sorted, often this is based on fear, the reason for the fear we may never know especially if your dog is a rescue.

First decide on a word to use for recall, this can be any word but one not in constant use generally, preferably not the word you have used previously because your dog has already learnt that he doesn’t have to come to that so use another. It is easier and quicker to teach a dog to a new word than change his idea of the word you are using now.

Never call more than once, We have all see dogs that come on the second or third call, have you ever wondered why? The owner has taught the dog to come on the second or third call by continuing to call, the dog has learnt that he doesn’t have to come at first call, this isn’t good enough for me, I want my dogs to come the first time I call.

Never call your dog when you know he won’t come, That is teaching him to ignore you, again we don’t want this. If your dog has his head down a rabbit hole or investigating something he won’t hear you when you call because he is so focused on what he is doing, so no point in calling, his mind is on something else. Think of a child watching a good cartoon on the tv and you ask them to tidy their bedrooms.

I use a long line clipped to a harness, I don’t let my dog get to the end of the long line so he never learns how long it is, this is handy when I add another long line. I call him back from various distances and give lots and lots of praise and high resources treats, I go overboard with the praise but only give ONE treat.

I try to get my dog looking at me at first before asking for him to recall, this is so I know he has heard and I can encourage him back with my body language. If my dog isn’t looking at me I can try several things, high squeal, rustle a bag that normally has nice things in, start to walk the other way and saying “This way”, bounce a ball, anything will do to get my dog’s attention. I have been known to lie down on wet grass . I can then give the command for him to come back to me.

As my dog improves I stop getting his attention first and still expect him to come back to me immediately unless his head is down a rabbit hole etc. Once my dog is doing well and coming every time I introduce a whistle, I give the command and whistle, it doesn’t take my dog long to associate the whistle as come and I continue to use both.

This doesn’t really take that long, it just looks like it takes a long time. Once my dog is 100% recall on a long line I add another and carry on setting him up to recall every time but start to use the whistle more. The whistle travels a lot more than our voices and is louder so is very handy for recall. I will often add another long line depending on where I am and how busy it is.

Once my dog hags 100% recall I then drop my end and let my dog trail the line still working on the recall. If everything goes well I take a line off work some more before taking the last line off.

I take my dogs away a lot and don’t know what the countryside is like, in these situations I will still put a long line on my dogs but let them trail behind. My dogs are used to this and don’t think anything about it.

When teaching recall to our dogs we also have to take into account our dog’s breed and what they were bred to do. Some dogs like Labradors are bred to obey us, others like Terriers are bred to think for themselves, it is up to us as owners to find something that our dog will come back for. This can be treats, praise, play, toys etc some dogs we have to mix these to keep them interested.

I also find playing hide and seek with my dog helps the recall, at first I just stand by a bush and call then gradually hide behind one. My dogs think this is fun because they get a reward when they find me.

Another is when there are 2 of you, you can take it in turns to call the dog, turn it into a game.
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Jenny
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02-12-2013, 04:03 PM
A great post Mattie
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CaroleC
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02-12-2013, 04:04 PM
Really good recall advice from Mattie!

Regarding the reactiveness:- I would start by training a strong eye contact response to the command 'Look at Me'. With a loose lead and some tasty rewards this can be trained, first at home, then at a distance from the other dogs, before gradually allowing him to get closer to them. Let him know he's done the right thing with a clicker or a 'Yes', and treat.

Try not to meet other dogs head on, and allow him a safe distance from which he can observe, and read their body language. On your walks, encourage him to 'Look at the Dog', (cow, horse, or whatever), then 'Look at Me', to break his eye contact with the object of his attention.

Wish I could help with motorbikes, my 12 year old still hates them!
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Canine K9
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02-12-2013, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by Baxter8 View Post
Bailey being the smaller of your two dogs? Both beautiful btw.
Yes he is, unfourtantly I no longer have Max the big dog because he and Bailey didn`t gel so he now lives with my cousin.

When you say reactive to motorbikes - does he try to chase, become aggressive, lunge, shake/tremble?
He lunges whilst barking rapidly and low growling He doesn`t try to chase them.
Attempting to get him good recall over the course of a year seems a long time! Has he been offlead at all?
Twice and first time he legged it towards a main road second time I ended up chasing after him.

One suggestion I saw somewhere is to get a recording of a motorbike and play it back to him on very low volume and increase very slowly, that will get him use to the noise, I would google BAT and introduce him to the sight of motorbikes very slowly. Not sure if it is prey drive chasing/reaction or fear. Need more information really.
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
Have you had his ears and eyes tested? I think I would have these tested before working with my dog.
No but I will thanks

For recall this is how I teach it, people teach it differently and I have to adapt it to suit the dog.


Recall


To have a good recall with your dog you need to have good recall in your house and garden before working outside in various places. It is very important to set our dogs up to succeed with recall, there is nothing worse than trying to call our dogs back and them not coming or worse coming so far or running round us. Only coming so far or running round us is a sign there is another problem which need to be sorted, often this is based on fear, the reason for the fear we may never know especially if your dog is a rescue.

First decide on a word to use for recall, this can be any word but one not in constant use generally, preferably not the word you have used previously because your dog has already learnt that he doesn’t have to come to that so use another. It is easier and quicker to teach a dog to a new word than change his idea of the word you are using now.

Never call more than once, We have all see dogs that come on the second or third call, have you ever wondered why? The owner has taught the dog to come on the second or third call by continuing to call, the dog has learnt that he doesn’t have to come at first call, this isn’t good enough for me, I want my dogs to come the first time I call.

Never call your dog when you know he won’t come, That is teaching him to ignore you, again we don’t want this. If your dog has his head down a rabbit hole or investigating something he won’t hear you when you call because he is so focused on what he is doing, so no point in calling, his mind is on something else. Think of a child watching a good cartoon on the tv and you ask them to tidy their bedrooms.

I use a long line clipped to a harness, I don’t let my dog get to the end of the long line so he never learns how long it is, this is handy when I add another long line. I call him back from various distances and give lots and lots of praise and high resources treats, I go overboard with the praise but only give ONE treat.

I try to get my dog looking at me at first before asking for him to recall, this is so I know he has heard and I can encourage him back with my body language. If my dog isn’t looking at me I can try several things, high squeal, rustle a bag that normally has nice things in, start to walk the other way and saying “This way”, bounce a ball, anything will do to get my dog’s attention. I have been known to lie down on wet grass . I can then give the command for him to come back to me.

As my dog improves I stop getting his attention first and still expect him to come back to me immediately unless his head is down a rabbit hole etc. Once my dog is doing well and coming every time I introduce a whistle, I give the command and whistle, it doesn’t take my dog long to associate the whistle as come and I continue to use both.

This doesn’t really take that long, it just looks like it takes a long time. Once my dog is 100% recall on a long line I add another and carry on setting him up to recall every time but start to use the whistle more. The whistle travels a lot more than our voices and is louder so is very handy for recall. I will often add another long line depending on where I am and how busy it is.

Once my dog hags 100% recall I then drop my end and let my dog trail the line still working on the recall. If everything goes well I take a line off work some more before taking the last line off.

I take my dogs away a lot and don’t know what the countryside is like, in these situations I will still put a long line on my dogs but let them trail behind. My dogs are used to this and don’t think anything about it.

When teaching recall to our dogs we also have to take into account our dog’s breed and what they were bred to do. Some dogs like Labradors are bred to obey us, others like Terriers are bred to think for themselves, it is up to us as owners to find something that our dog will come back for. This can be treats, praise, play, toys etc some dogs we have to mix these to keep them interested.

I also find playing hide and seek with my dog helps the recall, at first I just stand by a bush and call then gradually hide behind one. My dogs think this is fun because they get a reward when they find me.

Another is when there are 2 of you, you can take it in turns to call the dog, turn it into a game.
Wow thanks so much

Originally Posted by CaroleC View Post
Really good recall advice from Mattie!

Regarding the reactiveness:- I would start by training a strong eye contact response to the command 'Look at Me'. With a loose lead and some tasty rewards this can be trained, first at home, then at a distance from the other dogs, before gradually allowing him to get closer to them. Let him know he's done the right thing with a clicker or a 'Yes', and treat.

Try not to meet other dogs head on, and allow him a safe distance from which he can observe, and read their body language. On your walks, encourage him to 'Look at the Dog', (cow, horse, or whatever), then 'Look at Me', to break his eye contact with the object of his attention.

Wish I could help with motorbikes, my 12 year old still hates them!
Thanks all very useful
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mjfromga
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02-12-2013, 05:07 PM
My old female dog is never allowed off lead, either. I tried to gain her a recall, but in the end... like you, it was to no avail. She comes on cue indoors always, but outside she doesn't pay ANY attention at all.

Mattie offers some very good advice, as usual. My problem with the long line thing was that the dog could instantly tell the difference between it and her normal leash. I guess it was lighter or something... idk?

She'd instantly bolt with it on while outside, and it would always snatch her back with a yelp once she got to the end of it. Once one snapped and she went running up the hill, I gave up on the long line thing.

I used treats, everything. But none of it helped. On a long line.. she always thought she was free to run, and on her normal leash... there just isn't any room to teach a recall outdoors.

Because she doesn't usually like other dogs, and has an extreme dislike/fear of kids, this was only for the yard, anyway and it turned out not to be a big deal to just not let her off the leash.

Though my previous Lab mix had very good recall and my current Lab mix has perfect recall... I have no experience with teaching this to dogs who have trouble with it.

My dogs simply got it by themselves. I walked about the house with them following treats in my hand, and then I took treats outside, puppy still on my heel, and then walked around with the treats, and then back inside with them, and a greedy little Lab mix puppy merely clung to my side and that was that.

In defense, I choose Lab mixes which are usually quick to catch on and eager to please (and get treats).
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Tang
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02-12-2013, 08:36 PM
Lots of good stuff there from Mattie on the training. As for motorbikes I think there must just be something about the pitch of the noisy ones because I had a dog who was scared of them all her life. From the day we brought her home and one went past us in the car.
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Mattie
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02-12-2013, 09:18 PM
Originally Posted by mjfromga View Post
Mattie offers some very good advice, as usual. My problem with the long line thing was that the dog could instantly tell the difference between it and her normal leash. I guess it was lighter or something... idk?

She'd instantly bolt with it on while outside, and it would always snatch her back with a yelp once she got to the end of it. Once one snapped and she went running up the hill, I gave up on the long line thing.
That is why you never let them know were the end is, also I have the same width of webbing for my long line as I do for my lead. I learnt the hard way when lunging my horse just how crafty animals can be when they know when they are under control and when they can escape the control

I used treats, everything. But none of it helped. On a long line.. she always thought she was free to run, and on her normal leash... there just isn't any room to teach a recall outdoors.
That is the idea, the dog thinks they are free and not under control. I have 30ft long lines but at first I don't let them have the full length, they have between 15ft and 20ft depending on were we are. I call them back BEFOR they get to the end so they don't find out were the end is.

The treats have to be very high reward treats and MUST NOT be used for anything else, only for recall training, by restricting their use you are upping the value.

Because she doesn't usually like other dogs, and has an extreme dislike/fear of kids, this was only for the yard, anyway and it turned out not to be a big deal to just not let her off the leash.

Though my previous Lab mix had very good recall and my current Lab mix has perfect recall... I have no experience with teaching this to dogs who have trouble with it.

My dogs simply got it by themselves. I walked about the house with them following treats in my hand, and then I took treats outside, puppy still on my heel, and then walked around with the treats, and then back inside with them, and a greedy little Lab mix puppy merely clung to my side and that was that.

In defense, I choose Lab mixes which are usually quick to catch on and eager to please (and get treats).
Nothing wrong with teaching your dogs that way, it worked and that is what matters, the method doesn't as long as you use positive training. I took on a dog who had been beaten for (not) coming back, it took me 4 years to find the key to him coming back. I had to find something that had no association with his previous life so taught him that when he heard the clicker it meant nice things happen like very high rewards, he loved cuddles so that helped.
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