Indeed, but as previously stated, one rule for us, another for the rest of the animal kingdom.

I do see what you are saying here. In fact one of the arguments I have with myself (yes, really ) is that at least the fox lives a very natural life until he meets his death, however that may be. Whereas farmed animals often have unnatural lives and are then transported (causing stress and possible discomfort) then slaughtered in what is deemed a humane way ... but I guess no death is really humane unless the animal really doesn't know it is coming and it is completely stress and pain free.

I don't know the answer really ... just know I am too sensitive for my own liking in a lot of respects (especially considering a live slap bang in the middle of a grouse shooting estate, where all predators are killed on a daily basis!)!

besides the point.

nature sets nature, biological imperative

man sets dog, artificial created situation

if the dog was feral, living off the land, your analogy would fit.

your analogy may even fit if a pet dog opportunistically kills a rabbit etc, as again that's nature's instinct.
and fair enough

What I find difficult to stomach at times though is that the shoot fraternity love and respects the countryside and the birds (well, other than raptors ) but to the detriment of all that can be classed as predators. Foxes, stoats, weasels, etc are all wiped out to protect the birds. I would prefer to see a happy medium.

Anyone who eats meat but disagrees with the shooting of game animals (for the table) is a massive hypocrite IMO.

My point exactly. Thanks for putting it so eloquently Kruse.

What would be a happy medium though? 1 stoat per 1/2 square mile? A stoat can do an immense amount of damage to ground nesting birds/chicks/chickens. Take away the stoats/predators, you have successful waders rearing successful broods. Just look on a grouse moor, how many breeding waders are there? Look on a moor not managed for grouse, and you don't. You really do live in the wrong place

Would a happy medium for rats be 1 rat per household? Would we accept living with a rat because they are "natural"? What's the difference of killing a rat to get rid of it from our homes, to killing a fox to stop it killing our stock (game birds included). I know it's not hunting but a reason for control anyway.

Helen

The world is an "unatural" place though.

Helen

I think perhaps you live on the wrong grouse moor, I've been out with the OH when he's been training spaniels, shooting over them, and seen a badger meandering across the moor in broad daylight. I might add the gamekeeper was one of those shooting over the dogs, and knew about it's presence.

I take my girls over to a local grouse moor occasionally to exercise, and I've seen raptors, as well as a wonderful stoat wiggling across the road in front of me with a dead hare (road kill), and evidence of other predators. I think it's unfair to make the generalisation that those who enjoy hunting and shooting just want to kill those that compete with their prey animals, that's simply untrue of those I know involved with this type of countryside sport, they are keeping things in balance, and don't kill for the sake of it.

The hunting act encompasses much more than just hunting foxes with hounds, it encompasses a variety of other activities, and much of it is simply unworkable as situations change when you are out hunting with dogs in any way shape or form. So do you prosecute someone because something happened to affect how you planned to hunt went wrong due to unforseen circumstances?

the 'world', not the 'planet'