You do it more by throwing toys.

Food is what you get AFTER hunting, eating lowers all adrelein levels.

If you just toss food around without yourself being exciting the dog will lose drive

I was keeping out of this one but have to say something as Adam you are clearly not seeing the bigger picture.

If your dog has has bad recall train with a harness and long line much nicer than any form of electric shock. Dog gets freedom to sniff and be a dog and owner is confident and happy dog is not going to run off and get into any trouble.

You think the dog who is trained with food based rewards may also show signs of stress.

My stress head dog who will happily trot up to me when he has done something good or brave is stressed nuzzling into my hand looking at me with those big trustful eyes and madly wagging tail is stressed getting his piece of kibble or whatever sweetie I have chosen to use that day is he ?

Thats why when called he keeps running back held high tail wagging not creeping along looking from side to side wondering where the pain is going to come from and when.

You also have too account for not all breeds are all the same some breeds come immediately some breeds don't some personalities may choose to be more appeasing and do what they are asked straight away others may be more independent and need a bit more coaxing.

Shock collars are barbaric and IMO do not train a dog at all it is a cop out and the easy way rather than spending time and patience and building a bond with your dog and if you cannot train a dog without one you have no right to own a dog.

Sorry if that comes across as OTT I am feeling very emotional today and am very upset at what your poor little dog is suffering at your hands.

I think it's closer to the truth to say that you are inadequate as a trainer, in that you have failed to understand and utillise positive methods. So, impatiently, you have resorted to what you think is a quick fix in e-collars, regardless of the unpleasant implications for the dog.

Lynn like many of our members you have looked upon your dog as an individual and tailored your methods of training/handling/managment to fit his needs without causing additional behavioural problems and destroying the trust which exists between you.

I guess some of us don't want 'perfect' but cowed dogs, we would rather not quash every bit of character a dog has by forcing it to submit to our every whim in an instant with the use of pain and fear. Instead we appreciate that some dogs are predisposed to certain behaviours and we work with the dog to accommodate their needs as well as our own with the use of patience,kindness and reward. For me that is what a dog/human partnership is all about.

100% agree.........there is an old saying which is very true 'a bad workman blames his tools' AP tried +R and failed. He then did a huge jump from - I cant do +R to +R doesnt work.

That says it all!

It is confusing, and one person (AP) is making it so

I wonder if the person you refer to was called Bart Bellon. I understand he has done a seminar here.

I can totally imagine the training scenario you describe.

A friend of mine in the US tried to train her dog using a trainer from one of the franchises there... the trainer told her a pack of lies, including that her dog was not scared when it started to cry, yelp, back away, etc. and was told it was just surprise.

This is what makes me so mad, because some of the innocent pet owners who are taken in tend to fall for the patter

My friend was intelligent enough, and knew her dog enough, to run away fast from the shock collar method, and using pos. methods has trained her dog beautifully and he's a credit to her.

Wys
x

ridiculous!

i feel very sick and sad reading about the OPs actions. I have my 8 week old pup nestling in to my lap and 2 under 5's playing with their cars and watching chitty chitty bang bang. The 3 of them paint an image of purity, innocence and trust. To think of someone giving a dog and electric shock and stealing all of that naturally present purity, innocence and trust to make it bend to human will is barbaric to me I find it incredibly sad that this man does not understand the concept of nurturing a living being and feel even more desperate for his dogs.
I do agree with the notion that "one man's meat is another man's poison" but i do think that there are levels of cruelty that cannot be excused by mere preference....

I am a great believer in Karma.

What goes around comes around.....

Hi Wysiwyg,

I can't remember the name of the person. He came from Germany. We were upstairs doing the tea and sandwiches at an equestrian centre, so could see through a glass window, but not hear what was said.

It was awful