Yep your absolutely right, all my dogs are top quality pure breed show dogs!

Ramble Im with you now - outta here - and it was going well.

A lot of comments about dogs "not being up to standard" and that sort of thing... But as I said earlier... many dogs that fall short of the "standard" make fantastic pets, in many cases better than those who are of good "standard" ... So if all health checks etc are undertaken and the breeding is done ethically.. then why shouldn't someone breed for pets as opposed to show?

And the snobbery question wasn't directed at any individual... just the "show world" in general.... Because I've not seen any other argument against a decent, ethical breeder taking a litter of wanted pups for pets and not showing

There's snobbery in all aspects of life. There are some show people who believe there dogs are better because they show, by the same token there are many barf/raw/natural feeders who believe they are better than those who don't feed that way, there are some who think they are better because they own a particular breed or type of dog than other people the list is endless.
For me I do not believe that puppies should be bred solely to supply the pet trade. That happens now and look what state the rescues are in. If you say it's OK to breed to supply the pet market (all be it with the proviso that health testing etc is done) this gives out the impression that it is OK for anyone to breed any dog to supply the pet market. Why don't we just sell all our puppies in shops then? That's supplying the pet market.
Becky

Totally agree with most of that... There are many breed specific rescue centres also, so that problem is not confined to "pet" bred dogs though. And I did state, that they should be ethically bred, which in my book includes making sure the new owners of such pets are suitable and that all other things that a show breeder would insist on are adhered to... The only single difference that leaves IMO is that one will be for showing and the other for companionship

It's funny because only yesterday I was at a champ show and the diversity of size looks etc, was very apparent in the ring. It was lovely though, after I'd taken my clone dog in the ring we spent the evening bounding round the agility ring. The KC keeps being referred to of whom I am not their greatest fan but they have nothing to do with the breed standard so can't be blamed for anything.
I too will bow out of this, as to be honest at no point have I slated the working dogs of ISDS lines etc. as personally I think it's good that we have experienced people in the breed in all areas that looking at the welfare of the breed. Having show lines myself which are used for all areas of working and hobby activities I am now taking offence at the comments made against the breeders of these dogs, a lot of these who have given decades of dedication to the breed to improve hips and health problems in the breed. And the fact that most of these comments come from people who not even been round the ringside and taken an interest in the breeding behind the dogs. Very one sided.
For the record I am not a member of the KC or the ISDS as I put my money into other areas like the Border Collie and Working Sheepdog rescues as I feel my money is better spent. The argument between these two establishments have been going on for decades and will continue to do so. I feel it's time wasted and will do my bit for the breed by always getting my dogs from ethical breeders so as not to add to the list of badly bred dogs. It's a small part to play but my contribution to this breed and any other.

I keep hearing the comment "why should pet breeders not breed their pet dogs, when there's a demand ?"

WHERE is the demand ? because the last time I looked in all the freeads, Vet surgeries and the Internet, I have yet to see a WANTED advert, and more importantly, enough of these adverts to justify people breeding dogs for the sake of it

If there were a TRUE demand for your everyday 'pet dog' or mongrel/crossbreed, then there wouldnt be any Rescue centres in business, because they would all be empty, doesn't anyone understand that ???????

This country is full to the brim of unwanted dogs, many hundreds being euthanised DAILY because there are not enough homes for them because your average Joe down the street has a few mates that would happily take a few puppies off his hands when he breeds

And as for the comment of "as long as a Lab looks like a Lab, it doesn't matter"...................who is there to tell whether a Lab actually looks like the breed it should, and as I said before if it weren;t for people who show to keep Labs looking like labs to the breed standard, 'your friend' wouldn't be able to find the lab she wanted.

(you take 2 Labs of bad standard that have too many faults and breed them, then continue to do so from their puppies and then their puppies and so on and so on,.......what do you end up with ? A dog that looks nothing like a Lab

I would love all you anti-show, non-show people to actually go to a Championship show and have a real good look at the dogs in the ring, take pics if necessary and then decide whether the average pet dog actually looks like the breed it should be.

Thanks for the explanation Ian you are entitled to your opinion.

Just for the record.... I'm not anti show... not anti anything infact. I love to see dogs do what they are happy doing. If thats in a showring great, in a field great. I'm always there to congradulate those of you who have shown your dogs and to comment on their pics etc..... But as I said, there are rescue centres full of all kinds of dogs from all kinds of back grounds.. and there are ethical and non ethical breeders of all kinds of dogs.. and each should be frowned upon or congradulated equally whether it's show dogs or pets.. thats all

Hmm, so you think that because there is a breed specific rescue, it is full of ex show or working dogs? 'fraid not.

What a good point! If you look at certain free ad internet puppy sites, or Loot, or any of the free-ad papers there are hundreds of adverts for pet bred puppies looking for homes, week after week after week. It is depressing.