"Killjoy" ooops not literary

You revolt me, your actions are despicable and your constant whining is annoying. Your childish reaction to being challenged indicate a lack of emotional maturity and your inability to construct a supporting argument leads me to conclude a lack of intelligence.

Finally, I've been more "Pro" than anyone else. To label people who offer up information as 'anti' is a triumph of the doublespeak used by the Millanistas.

Twas a joke m'dear, geddit??
Well forget the "eggsperts" just show me where it states that he IS a Wolf cross, thats all.

Dog A sees dog B and growls. Most dogs understand this and keep away. Owner A, applies Millan's methods and punishes dog A for growling. Dog no longer growls, but still FEELS the same way. Dog A learns that when dog B approaches he gets hurt. Dog A does the only thing he knows to do; takes aggressive action to keep dog B away.

Thank you Cesar. Hallelujah!

Your first reaction was the correct one.


Only people that attacked him. If a stranger came to your house, gagged you and tried to force you to the floor, I suspect you might also show some ferocity as you tried to fight them off.

If this won you over, you need help. This dog was so vicious despite the fact that the couple religiously followed his advice that they eventually gave the dog away.

I posit that once the dog got accustomed to the punishment, he was able to return to his old behaviours. Another example of why simply suppressing the dog with force does nothing in the long term..

this is so complex as some of what cm says (and i mean says, not does) makes sense.

i still, having read through every single post, do not read about any cm fan admitting to stringing up their dog. not once does anyone say they had a problem, their dog had a tantrum and they solved it by stringing him up.

i can't help but think that no cm fan that has posted on this thread would be happy, truly happy, to stand back and watch their dog be treated in this manner. and whilst the argument has been that their dogs don't require this kind of 'rehabilitation', just say they did. would you allow your dog to be treated that way?

i have a dog who was dog aggressive. he is so much better than he was when i rescued him 6 years ago and that's without any kind of cm training. nothing but positive, gentle encouragement. and yes, we still have minor problems but they are minor and on the whole he is doing well.

Hmmm. Another angle on this that was presented to us by various trainers....

Dog A sees dog B and growls.

Some dogs understand this and keep away, but many are either poorly socialised, bullies or just plain bad mannered.

Owener A allows dog A to handle the situation it's own way. Dog A realises that a simple growl isn't working but still feels the same way. So eventually it's only option is to escalate to out and out aggression. Whatever it takes to keep dog B away.

In many cases dog A learns from this experience that aggression works. In many cases dog A eventually becomes the aggressor - the bully.

In many cases dog A learns that growling and displaying aggression can backfire and result in a savage attack from another dog.

I'm not suggesting that making an aggressive dog afraid or unwilling to growl before attacking is a good idea. (Although I do very much see the value in teaching a dog not to take matters into it's own hands - a subtle but important difference).

The advice I've heard from pretty much everyone is NEVER let two unstable dogs hang out together. Keep your dog well away from dogs that make it uncomfortable until it's learned to behave extremely well around 'normal' dogs. A well balanced dog will have a calming effect and your unstable dog will learn from it that aggression isn't necessary or productive. An unstable dog will have an unsettling effect and your dog is more likely to learn that aggression (initially growling, but if that doesn't work - as it often won't when dealing with an unstable dog - then later an out and out attack).

But the biggest problem I see in the situation described was the decision to allow two unstable dogs to hang out together. Especially when one of the owners felt strongly that the other owner was training her unstable dog in such a way that it was becoming a ticking time bomb.

I think you're clutching at straws trying to pin this one on CM.

WHO would "punish" a dog for growling. That is so dangerous.

You may "correct" of course that is let the dog it is not acceptable. If mine start i tell them to shut up & go & lie down. Thus diffusing the situation, id not let my dogs escalate into a fight.

If my dog is growling at some one elses dog & that dog is taking no notice, i will ask its owner to remove their animal from my dogs vicinty, my dogs would have automatically come back to me for "proctection "/ "back up "in this situation anyway as they trust me to sort situations out

Did not see red eyes!!!! & dogs eyes arent red.I saw big bulging dark eyes ,I could see a blue tongue though!!!!!

Funny how we can see different things. (not funny for the dog though!)

CM was Sh8888ng himself too!!!! bet you didnt see that either!!!!

But (unless i have missed that bit) people are not allowing dogs to 'take matters into thier own hands'...they are allowing the dog to display bodylanguage that is conveying the dogs discomfort....

I understand what you are saying....and yes...both situations are dangerous....and both would show owners who are not capable of understanding dogs.

As an dog owner we take responisbility for our dogs...teaching them what is acceptable and what is not....
This does not mean that we should force our ideas on the dogs, but that we should have (at least) a basic understanding of how dogs communitcate.
The situation youa re describing is a failure from both the owners....owner of dog B has not taken the time to teach the dog manners, of fails to control the dog in situations like this....owner of dog A fails to understand that thier dog is uncomfortable and they should do something about it....(ie - get the other owner to remove thier dog/distance themselves or place the dog behind them etc)....


Would it have happened if the lady had not been watching the programme....that is the question that needs to be asked....

I imagine the dog had some chow in it somwhere.....