I made the point that people have what I refer to as 'supermarket ethics', ie they like to think they don't condone cruelty, and it's easy to look at fox hunting and say it's cruel and should be banned, and meanwhile do nothing else within your own lifestyle that would affect you personally but feel very good about some of your values, there are (unfortunately) plenty of folk that do. I've been indiscussion on other forums where people are vehemently against fox hunting, and yet too poor to afford anything except two for a fiver chickens and battery farmed hens eggs. For me, it's a lifestyle choice, and I personally find it very hypocritical for someone to spout against what they perceive as cruelty on the one hand, and yet still be happy to support other forms of cruelty so as not to impact on their lifestyle. I hope that makes sense?

Vegetarianism is a difficult one, I'm aware, as I'm sure many vegetarians are, that much of the produce is imported, and that it's difficult to eat just seasonal produce and not support poor farming practices, including soya production which has seen great areas of rain forest in Southern America disappear. In a way, although indirectly, many vegetarians support animal cruelty, and many are happy to do so without actually knowing, or researching, because ignorance is bliss.

As I said previously on this thread, and have done on others, I'm not particularly pro hunting, nor am I really against it, I think there are more important issues to worry about in life, more difficult problems to solve. What I do hate is the humanisation people put to hunting, and hunting with dogs. Animals live every day with the threat of death hanging over them, foxes didn't all suddenly start trotting around knowing that they weren't hunted, and they still live with that predator/prey survival instinct, although I will add the proviso that urban foxes seem to be evolving into a different creature from rural foxes, much bolder, larger and unfortunately I fear more disease ridden from the sheer numbers of them now.

Unfortunately, the side effect of the hunting ban has been a number of law suits taken to the courts, nothing to do with fox hunting, but other pursuits involving hunting with dogs, such as ratting, rabbiting etc. I've even seen instances where people training their dogs for shooting, have been threatened with calling the police as it's an illegal activity (apparently). The law as it stands seems to be unworkable, and for that reason, I hope it's repealed.

Having had time to read the last long post will try and do so later, I'm just having my morning cuppa before dog walking, but how can you come to this conclusion? It's better for you, but how would you know what the fox thinks, given the direct alternative of being trapped in a situation, or not being trapped, without giving the fox the gift of foresight and understanding, I'd imagine the fox would choose the least stressful situation. Of course you'd like to imagine the fox is trapped and happily released into the wild elsewhere, when in reality, that really doesn't happen all of the time, foxes are released into areas they don't know, where it's unsuitable for them because of our impact and they then become a nuisance again. Or else why is it that foxes that have been shot on land with permission, show signs of operations, including one three legged fox neatly stitched up? One person shot 12 newly released foxes in one night after being asked to do so by a landowner, they knew all of the populaltions in that area, and these were new, some with signs of medical intervention. Is that fair?

The hunting ban is not just fox hunting, it impacts on all areas where dogs are used alongside hunting/shooting, including ratting with terriers.

I never said i condoned it, i said it was in their nature, at the end of the day they are dogs, they do catch things and when you have 5 living together they naturally become a pack, no way would they listen to me if they are hunting

Pretty much yes. The green belt is still green belt, but the Fox situation since the ban particularly, and with fools that feed Foxes in towns (specifically) their numbers have rocketed. Awful nuisance.

i mentioned rats because of the dog link. if people would rather a fox be shot than got with hounds, then what about rats, posion or terriers getting them? same issue.


sorry maybe i used the wrong smiley. i do not find hunting funny in anyway.. i meant with that bit what if the hounds were used, without people on horseback, and the hounds flushed the fox out of cover and it was shot?


again, if you havent seen it then you dont know... the foxes do not get torn apart, at least not alive.. its always a quick kill be it with either a gun, or the lead dog biting and snapping the neck, just like a dog killing a rabbit.

I will pass your comments onto my brother in law regarding foxes

The area where you live sounds pretty idyllic + unique

If anyone is releasing 3-legged foxes into the wild it is a bit irresponsible for that animal and those person/s should be brought to task

You are going slightly off topic - talking about animals that have had medical treatment and released still with stitches. That is something the aurthorities should be made aware of

I cant agree with you that a fox or any animal would prefer to be torn to shreds by a pack of dogs.

Please do, education is the key. The more that know how stupid it is and that is only makes the problem worse, the better. When numbers are better managed again, it will be better all round.