Meat meal v's 'fresh meat'

Overheard a memeber of PAH telling a couple about their 'new' veterinary science diet style food.

Apparently the fact that it contains fresh meat makes it better than those that contain meat meal as it is made with fresh meat so therefore better for your dog and 'more' meaty.

Now as I have always understood that meat meal means it has more 'meat' in it as it is 'concentrated'.

I waited till I got to the till and said 'I couldnt help overhearing you tell that couple that fresh was better than meal? I was always told its the other way round?' and tried to explain the concept to her. she looked at me as if i was an idiot then her colleague pipes up with 'no not at all fresh is better. the likes of Royal Canin only use meat meal as (wait for it!!!!) 'they import their meat from overseas so it is easier for them to ship and move around when it is dried'.

A queue had started to form so I gave a wry smile shook my head and left...

Surely the "fresh" meat is going to be cooked and dried to go into the kibble anyway? And food will be sat on a lorry, in a warehouse, on their shelves, etc. so not very "fresh" anymore?
I know that, for example, "chicken meal" trumps "chicken" in dry food, because "meat meal" is dried meat, whereas chicken is the whole chicken, including the 60% or so of it that's water. So a 10kg bag of food that was 20% chicken would have 2kg whole chicken in it before processing, but once dehydrated, that would drop down to less than a kilo. Whereas a food that was 20% meat meal would contain 2kg of meat meal at the start and the end of manufacture.

Unless they mean a ready-made frozen nugget type food?

I read up a bit on this ages ago and I read that meat meal contains the bits of animals not normally eaten such as chicken beaks, feet etc.

`meat` can mean anything - beaks, feet, stomach contents (sorry) - lips and a**holes as we used to say about a well known burger chain.
`Meat meal` and `fresh meat` wouldn`t cut any ice with me. I`d want to know what animal it came from and which parts were used. And it would be good to know how said animal was reared - intensively reared chickens can have huge doses of ABs to combat infections caused by the poor environment.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=meat-meal

Meal:
"Meat meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. It shall not contain added extraneous materials not provided for by this definition"

"Poultry meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails.It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."

Meat:
"Meat is the clean flesh derived from slaughtered mammals and is limited to that part of the striate muscle which is skeletal or that which is found in the tongue, in the diaphragm, in the heart, or in the esophagus; with or without the accompanying and overlying fat and the portions of the skin, sinew, nerve, and blood vessels which normally accompany the flesh. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."

"Poultry is the clean combination of flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts or whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet and entrails. It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto. If the bone has been removed, the process may be so designated by use of the appropriate feed term.".


The general gist seems to be that meat is less processed, but contains water too, so less meat for your money. Whereas meal is a bit more processed but the resulting kibble is more meaty because you're not losing anything in the process of dehydrating the kibble. The actual quality of the meat or meal depends entirely on what the manufacturer of the kibble is willing to spend, really. Not that I would have a problem with my dogs eating the feet (great source of glucosamine!), feathers etc. but obviously you want there to be a good amount of *actual* meat in your dog's food, regardless of meat or meal.

I don't see the problem with meat by-products in dog food. I would have said the entire animal (by-products and all) would have far more nutritional value than just the meat, which as already mentioned has a massive water content.

i allwas thought that, meat meal,. has fillers in it,.....i got to look this one up!....good one ...

Are you thinking of terrier meal? This is a dog food mixer made with/completely from cereals, to go alongside wet food.
Meat meal is just from the animal (e.g. chicken meal is just chicken)

Meat meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices.

Therefore it is neither better or worse than fresh meat per se!


My dogs regularly consume manure, stomachs, hooves, and hide, it is what they would eat in the wild and of course people spend money on buying hide and hoof treats for their dogs!

I always viewed animal derivatives as something to be avoided in a dog food but when I started feeding raw I realised that my dogs will eat just about every part of the animal - beaks, feet, fur and feather, innards blah blah - so derivatives arent as bad as I was made to believe.

I guess you have to take into account a balance though...I wouldnt want my dogs eating just beaks and feet, i'd want the rest of the bird consumed too!

(I know we're talking about meat/meat meal and not derivatives but there was mention of the less desired offcuts of animals, a***holes and the likes!)