It really is worth reporting dog on dog attacks - really long post

I know there have been a lot of threads on Dogsey recently, so many of us have had our beloved pets attacked whilst out walking, many times ours are onlead and the offending dogs offlead, or ours are behaving beautifully offlead when a nasty dog attacks. I just wanted to update our experience and put peoples minds at rest about reporting those dangerous dogs.

When Henry was attacked in September, you may recall he was onlead, the attacking dog offlead and his owner said he only attacks offlead dogs and it was our fault as Henry was on a lead Well, Henry's operation and subsequent treatment cost her dogs insurance company a pretty penny, they also paid out for some championship shows I had booked and couldn't attend. This was possible because I had the back-up of the police, I didn't need to sue the woman through the courts, although we would have done in need, as the police were there for us. She was issued with a caution that her dog had to be kept onlead at all times, failure to do this would result in the dog being removed and destroyed.

Last year my dear old Leon was attacked a couple of times by a Westie, he drew blood but nothing as serious as what happened to Henry, so I let it pass with a few words to the owner about keeping it on a lead etc. I didn't see them again for a few months until I had just got Henry, suddenly this Westie came through the fence of the Toot, straight for my boy, Henry managed to run behind me, almost strangling himself in the process, whilst I shouted and screamed at the dog to get away. The woman came over as if it had never happened before and said in her American accent "he's kinda tetchy, the little bitch over the road is in season" The same excuse she had used both times when he had bitten Leon.

Since Henry was badly attacked, and I had so much help from the police, I will no longer tolerate any dog attacking him, regardless of how severe it is, if the dog is offlead and a threat to Henry then it is being reported, and I tell the owner so too.

This time the daughter was walking the dog, he came flying some distance down the path growling and barking whilst she meandered along at her own pace, I'm hobbling on one leg as I was still recovering from my knee operation, Henry is trying desperately to break free and head for home, I'm screaming at the girl to call her dog to no avail, so I kicked it, then kicked it again and it still kept coming She eventully reached us, I gave her a right mouthful and said I'd had enough of their attitude and was reporting them to the police as I had asked them nicely to keep him on a lead but they refused to accept he had a problem. The girl said that her dog has never attacked anything There are several of us with dogs that have been at the receiving end of this dogs temper, all lovely natured animals that get on well with other dogs.

Anyway, I reported the dog, I heard back from the police that they had been to the address and been told there was no dog of any description at that house. I thought maybe they had parted with it after that last episode but no, we came face to face with it offlead last weekend Fortunately, the woman saw me and grabbed the dog before anything happened...I didn't say a word to her, just took Henry on a different route, but I did email the police as soon as I got back.

I had an email last night from the police, they have located the dog, apparently the woman realises he has a problem and is seeing a canine therapist, he is a rescue so they don't know his history, he feels threatened by my dog and one other that he meets on his travels, and would I like this womans phone number so we can plan our walks around each other? I was flabberghasted that she still refuses to believe that her dog is the one in the wrong and that it is my dog doing the threatening

Here is my reply:
Thanks so much Chrissie, I am pleased that you managed to find the lady, although how she can say my dog is a threat to hers when hers is offlead, at a distance and makes a bee line for us growling it's head off is beyond me. If it had been my dog that approached them then I could maybe understand her explanation but every time we have met up my dogs have been onlead and walking happily beside me, only to receive a running attack from the westie, with either her, her daughter or both of them strolling along at their own pace whilst my dog is swinging on it's lead trying to escape. Still, from my dealings with her she has no concept that her dog is to blame and neither does the daughter, maybe it makes her feel better to make excuses for his behaviour, if he is a rescue with issues then there is no way he should have been allowed offlead in the first place, but thats just my opinion as I've seen what it is capable of. There is the old english sheepdog, a working type cocker spaniel and a labrodoodle who all must put the fear of god into the westie as he has attacked all of them on various occasions due to feeling a bit tetchy, and all of them have been on their leads too and are lovely, friendly, approachable animals. If the owner knows he has issues and is taking him to a therapist, (for which I do applaud her), then why is she still walking him offlead?

I appreciate you having spoken to her, and the fact that he will now be onlead is of a great comfort to me. I won't go down the route of communicating with her as I feel she has told you a pack of lies, but I understand you can only go by what she is saying, the same as you can only take my word for what happened previously with my old dog and then when I got Henry. So long as I know her dog is on a lead for future walks she won't have any trouble from me if we meet as Henry is always on a lead and under my full control.

I sound really ungrateful and I'm not, far from it, but just don't want you to be lied to when there are several of us that have heard her excuses time and time again. I really appreciate the time you have spent on this and I know that you have more than enough on your plate workwise without having to console me, you have done exactly what I needed, reassured me that I can walk Henry without worrying about the dog appearing from somewhere and coming at us, knowing that he will be fully under control has made me very happy. I will make sure I let the other dog owners know what has happened so that they can also relax.

and the reply from the police this morning:
Hi Sheree,

I think you might be right but as you say I can only go off what people tell me.

If it’s okay with you I shall return to speak to her again and tell her that you are grateful for the offer but so long as she agrees to keep her dog on the lead then that will be sufficient and I will also stress again the need for her to do so.

I will do my best to visit her over the weekend and will let you know when I have done so.

Happy dog walking!

Regards

Chrissie

C9946 Capstick. Shenley Church End Parish

I just want to let you all know that the police are totally approachable and there is a clause in the dangerous dogs act that allows them to issue a warning to owners of dogs that are attacking other dogs. I was happy for my details to be given to the owners of the dogs that attacked Henry but you can remain totally anonymous if you feel threatened in any way.

I don't know if some areas have a dog warden that would deal with these issues, here in Milton Keynes I was told that she only deals with rehoming/lost dogs etc and was told to contact the police.

I would just mention, if a dog has a bit of a kerfuffle with Hen I don't have a problem with that at all, thats just dogs being dogs, I'm talking about actual attacks when the attacking dog isn't just coming over to have a sniff, it has one agenda in mind and, most times, the owner knows exactly how it is going to behave yet fails to either recognise the dangers or can't be bothered

An interesting thread. I imagine the police response would vary in different areas.
I think you did exactly the right thing but I have one concern, which is that some people consider an altercation or even a warning as an attack.
Having a nervous dog who postures and growls when a dog who makes him anxious comes close, I have had some dog owners kick off at me for having a vicious dog - even though there has been no contact - in fact Shamus freezes and doesn`t move.
Again - the one injured may be the one who started it - a young dog kept pestering my last GSD and in the end she turned and nipped him. I suppose legally speaking I would have been liable, and be deemed to have a dangerous dog, but luckily the other owner admitted her dog caused it.
This is why I wouldn`t like to see the police involved too much in dog/dog conflicts. In this area we have an excellent dog warden who knows dogs, and is happy to speak to owners. In my view that is the best solution.

Agreed, the main reason that many police do NOT follow it through is because owners fail to push for it and also that owners cannot provide sufficient information.

When one of my dogs was attacked I took all the number plates down of the cars that were parked in the area, wrote down a description of owner and dog, note of time, exact whereabouts etc etc.

The police need as much evidence in these sort of incident as they do for any other crime for it to be pursued and to hold up in court.

I think it did help that I could demonstrate that my dog was a PAT dog, had been "Temperament Tested Excellent", was a well known competitor in various disciplines around the UK and I could haul any number of people to attest to her excellent character; that I was a KC approved GCDS assessor and PAT approved temperament assessor (use every argument at your disposal).

Apathy exists in all walks of life and so many people moan but do nothing about it, if you do nothing then nothing will happen!

Good too hear you are getting the back up from the Police.

The Police eventually got involved here with a staffie that was a rescue and they kept letting it attack other dogs so eventually it does happen.

If its a rescue and they are not sure of its temperament why on earth is it off lead ?

Hopefully by sticking to your guns you have frightened her into being more responsible.

I can see this from both sides - it's bloody annoying that there are people out there with problem dogs who won't/can't teach them recall and yet allow their dogs to wander all over off lead.

On the the other hand, I've got a rescue who came with a few issues and has caused other dogs to require vet treatment (he was on lead when this happened) - and I had a bit of an accident with him the other week.


[QUOTE=scorpio;2107754] I had an email last night from the police, they have located the dog, apparently the woman realises he has a problem and is seeing a canine therapist, he is a rescue so they don't know his history, he feels threatened by my dog and one other that he meets on his travels, and would I like this womans phone number so we can plan our walks around each other? I was flabberghasted that she still refuses to believe that her dog is the one in the wrong and that it is my dog doing the threatening
[QUOTE]

I understand your frustration, but she is at least showing some commitment to the dog and not just giving up on him. If you did swap numbers, you'd be able to pretty much guarantee avoiding each other.

As an owner who's had problems with other dogs you have my sympathy. As an owner of a rescue who came with issues, I hope you can somehow find a way to sort things amicably and not blame the dog.

I do understand what you are saying Claire...if it was a one-off or just a bit of teeth showing etc., then I would take it on the chin and just keep an eye out for said dog so I could avoid direct contact. We met a young dobe the other day, the chap said he was fine, (he was offlead and Hen was on his lead), but the moment it got near Henry it lunged at him having a right go at him, I pulled Henry away and the chap grabbed his dog...we see each other over the park, acknowledge each other, if we are close enough we speak, but we keep the dogs away from each other, there are a couple of other dogs like that too, a shar pei and a black lab, the lab is ok with other dogs and I have seen the dobe playing with a collie, so he can't be a bad boy really, the shar pei is another that the owner refuses to believe doesn't want to be friends whit other dogs Both the dogs I have reported have been gunning for a fight, have attacked on numerous occasions and left scars and bloodshed..that is where I draw the line.


I agree, I had all the information needed to enable to the police to follow this up. I did know where the first dog lived but had to make enquiries with regards to the westie...the police can only go on what information you give them, and also you need to be truthful, if it isn't one-sided you cannot blame the other dog/owner if you are just as much to blame. I was upfront with the police about me kicking the westie, it wasn't big or clever of me, but it was the only thing I felt I could do at the time.

I was embrarrased when I contacted them the second time, I said that I probably sounded like an over-protective mummy, but they put me at ease and said that this is happening too much and there needs to be something done about it, if others hear that the police will take action then it might make them a bit more responsible if they have a problem dog.

Thanks Lynn, fingers crossed it has had the desired effect...just the impression they gave me was that butter wouldn't melt in their dogs mouth and how dare I insinuate it would

I've also had good experiences with reporting dog on dog attacks to the police. Isla was attacked by two Border Terriers some years ago, I reported the woman to the police and they followed it up and paid a visit to her house. She got a sharp warning about having her dogs out of control in a public place and since then she's always kept them on a lead.

It's definitely worth pursuing. The owners can't be prosecuted under current DDA legislation, but there is an act possibly from the 1980s through which they're causing an offence.

As an owner who recognises my dog will react to other dogs and never has him off lead , only in a safe place, the field we can use with just my 2 dogs, I really worry someone will report me to the police just because they have seen him react on walks. I control him when other dogs approach and he is always muzzled but think some people will think I have a dangerous dog. My OH thinks I worry too much about this but if someone was to ring the police and describe this dog as barking and jumping and TBH honest looking quite scary as someone went past with their dog I am not sure what I can say to mitigate this other than , he is always on lead , he is muzzled , he has never attacked another dog, he lives happily with another dog and we have professional help to address his issues, its a difficult one as peoples tolerance levels differ so much. If you have never owned a challenging dog then you may be ringing the police every time another dog on a walk reacts .

[QUOTE=MichaelM;2107787]I can see this from both sides - it's bloody annoying that there are people out there with problem dogs who won't/can't teach them recall and yet allow their dogs to wander all over off lead.

On the the other hand, I've got a rescue who came with a few issues and has caused other dogs to require vet treatment (he was on lead when this happened) - and I had a bit of an accident with him the other week.


[QUOTE=scorpio;2107754] I had an email last night from the police, they have located the dog, apparently the woman realises he has a problem and is seeing a canine therapist, he is a rescue so they don't know his history, he feels threatened by my dog and one other that he meets on his travels, and would I like this womans phone number so we can plan our walks around each other? I was flabberghasted that she still refuses to believe that her dog is the one in the wrong and that it is my dog doing the threatening
I do know what you are saying, but these owners simply refuse to admit that he is a problem...if they have taken him to a therapist, why are they still walking him offlead and giving him the opportunity to attack, and why do they come up with ridiculous reasons for it attacking? The owner of the poor OES pup was told it kept getting attacked because the westie couldn't see it's eyes! They tied it's hair up and, guess what?, it still attacked...because it had a ponytail Full credit to them for rescuing and not giving up on him because he is a nasty piece of work, but who will they blame when he attacks the wrong dog and comes a cropper? I don't believe for one minute they are taking it to a therapist, they knew it would only be a matter of time before the police knocked on their door, they already sent them away once with a cock and bull story...I fear she has been duped again. The owners lied to me and the OES owner about where they lived, so the police went to the wrong address the first time, then they were told no dog lived there when they did go to the right address...no wonder I don't believe a word they say!

I don't need to avoid her and the dog, just need to know that he is on a lead so cannot get to my dog, Henry will walk past it and not lunge and bark and we can both continue to enjoy the beautiful walks around here.

Work commitments already dictate when I take him out, I don't feel I should also have to phone this woman to check her plans match in with mine. There is a simple answer, if your dog cannot be trusted offlead then keep it on a lead, those extending ones are fine, just reel it in when an unknown or threatening dog is nearby, thats what we do.

I can understand you being worried and you are not the kind of owner I would be reporting, you obviously care and take steps to avoid any altercations, keeping your dog onlead and muzzled, what more can you possibly do?

These dogs I reported are a totally different ball game, allowed out of sight of their owners to go about their walk totally out of control even though they are known to attack, not just have a go, full blown attacks causing injury.

These are the type of dogs and owners I won't put up with any more. If I see them in the distance and there is an alternative route then I will take it, I don't go out looking for trouble, but sometimes, these dogs are already on your dogs before you know it.