Sally, sorry, but you are wrong to even consider it. It is simply inhumane.

To some extent, I had this dilemma with Ilo....(admittedly a (reindeer) herding dog), but I had chosen to live amongst sheep. I have taken the last two years to train her actually working the animals she finds so attractive (mostly lowland sheep but some cattle and many breeds of goat) so that I am confident she has reliable commands of all kinds in the presence of extreme temptation (in terms of her instinct). She regularly works animals for several hours a week now, with barely a hitch...(like missing a gate slightly with a couple of stragglers).

The orient>eye>chase>(grab>bite>kill) behavioural sequence response in herding breeds has been attenuated by hundreds of years of selective breeding, so she was unlikely to have harmed them, but damage to ewes in lamb was always a possibility if untrained and tempted on a walk. This sequence attenuation is simply not the case in the breeds that make up the NI (GSD excepting) thus reliability of training methods will constantly be fighting instinctual drive in your dog.

As said already, the chances of him permanently associating use of the collar with context other that the sheep is extremely high.

If you wish to live where you do and feel that off leash exercise is important (as I do), you should have put your preferences to one side and bought a dog with a minimal prey drive, or one that could be trained safely to work with stock. Alternatively, you could have moved so that you could exercise your NI dog in parks, woods or beaches. Why punish your pet with pain, given that it was your choice of breed and your choice of where to live?

Mary

Duh! You obviously haven't been paying attention as you've got this wrong. I'm bored of repeating it so you can figure out for yourself what's wrong about the above statement.

Ah come on Sally - you brought this all up again with your `nah-nah-na-na-nah I`m gonna get a collar` post. I can`t imagine why (well I can, I just can`t post it!) you would taunt the people you know are against electric shock collars when you know what reaction you`ll get. We all have our views on this cruelty, and your attempts to wind people up are getting little......boring.

To be honest I just see shock collar and thats as far as I get!

Either way..Your dog doesn't need to be near sheep..get a bigger fence..keep it on a lead near sheep etc etc..

There are ways around things rather than just zapping the poor animal!

I have no intention of hurting my dog or making him fearful. I have already explained exactly how I intend to use the e-collar (using the same methods employed during the training session I had) and why I believe it will neither hurt my dog nor make him fearful.

If you're lucky I might even get round to making a video so you can see for yourselves how we get on and hopefully allay your fears about my dog's welfare.

Although I am buying an e-collar, I will still continue with the other training that I have been doing so will still be putting in the same time and effort.

I do walk my dog in a sheep-free zone once a week, but I still want the peace of mind that he will respond to commands when sheep are nearby ....just in case.

the way i see it , is you are going to delibratley stick electricity through your dogs body in the name of "teaching". Just train the dog, just make a effort, just be a good kind owner.Just Stop & think, what on earth are you planning to do to your friend?

You're on a wind up now right???
You have had ONE lesson with an ecollar but you are now expert enought to use it on your own.
You don't intend to hurt your dog.
Your think posting a video will allay our fears about your dog's welfare?
You are still using positive, reward based methods.
You're winding us up right?

This has been an ongoing thread for a while now. I have been open and honest throughout and have had no intentions of winding people up. I simply wanted to hear the opinions of those against e-collars on what I should do instead and explore those other options first, particularly as I didn't have the money for an e-collar anyway when I started the thread.

After careful consideration and listening to the arguments put forward here, I am convinced that the best way forward for me and my dog is to use the e-collar as described earlier.

Yet you haven't given the 'other methods' any where near enough time yet...or even put the same amount of money in. Perhaps a couple of one to ones with a reward based trainer would stand you and your dog in better stead than buying an ecollar.
I truly believe you are on a wind up.

Well getting an e collar is an intention to hurt, shock and make him fearful

There are plenty dog cruelty videos around that I choose not to watch so yours will be another one to add to that list

Yeah ok!

Oh so once a week your dog gets a peaceful walk?

Poor dog..
He will respond to commans near sheep when on a lead!