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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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29-10-2008, 04:01 PM
Originally Posted by Helena54 
Yes, you are talking about deer in captivity, or National Trust Land etc. etc. where we have an expert, and I mean an EXPERT deer shooter, fully licenced to kill said animals, and usually only just that, with a proper deer killing machine, not a run of the mill farmer let loose with a 12 bore shooting poor foxes at will without a clue or a care come to that, as to how to aim for a really good shot and kill them in an instant! I think that's fact!
Originally Posted by Snorri the Priest
That is an admirable sentiment, but it does rather overlook the fact that we humans are largely to blame for their endangered status, in the first place.
Snorri
Think I already said that
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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29-10-2008, 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli
Regarding foxes going on a killing frenzy - all vulpines will kill in this manner when faced with what is a completely unnatural situation for them - loads of birds, rabbits, etc in one place such as a coop or pen. It does not make them evil - it is just a natural behaviour. I wonder how many dogs would also go on the same kind of frenzy if they got in an enclosure full of rabbits or chickens.
Studies have been made on the red fox in this country, and it was found that many foxes do cache food in different places to come back to later.
I would recommend reading "Running with the Fox" by David Macdonald to anyone (pro or anti foxes) who is interested in fox behaviour.
We are not talking about the taking back of one kill to either feed the young or bury till later... its the indescriminent kills the fox will go to.
If he gets into a coop, and faced with 10 chickens, he will probably kill all if not the majority of them.... he will carry off one.. to eat and stash.... the rest are left behind..
If he was only killing to stock up the larder, he would continue through the night scurrying away ALL his kill.
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Location: Runcorn Cheshire UK
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,480
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29-10-2008, 04:37 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
We are not talking about the taking back of one kill to either feed the young or bury till later... we talking about the indescriminent kills the fox will go to.
If he gets into a coop, and faced with 10 chickens, he will probably kill all if not the majority of them.... he will carry off one.. to eat and stash.... the rest are left behind..
If he was only killing to stock up the larder, he would continue through the night scurrying away ALL his kill.
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Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 13,122
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29-10-2008, 04:43 PM
We Dont Own Animals We Just Share The Earth With Them
Originally Posted by melzy
i dont mean the animals we care for i mean
we dont have the right to kill them as we are no better we should let therm live there lives after all they were here first
Should we just leave them to their own devices and not worry over the welfare when they are starving to death in the wild through over population.
If we dont cull wild life , they would end up in a pretty poor state.
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Location: South East UK
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 27,437
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29-10-2008, 05:03 PM
How come the RSPCA and probably many others in that vein of work, would RESCUE a fox who is trapped, injured, or sick and take it back to the centre, get it seen by a vet, and perhaps move it on to say a proper recouperating sanctuary where they perhaps have lots and lots of sick and injured foxes, and yet......... now who is it????..... oh yes, SOME farmers consider them to be this said "vermin" then??? I know of lots of farmers down my neck of the woods who go out of their way to stop any hunt from entering their land, now whether that's because they don't like the carnage they can leave behind, or whether it might, just might be because they too have nothing against our little foxes living in the countryside?
I cannot for the life of me see where they can get tagged as vermin quite honestly, so can somebody answer me exactly where and why then please??? Surely animal sanctuaries and suchlike don't take in VERMIN to bring back to health do they? I've never seen them pick up a dirty old sewer rat and take that back for a check up???
So WHO then classes this animal as vermin and is it generally understood by ALL (such as a rat!)coz some of us animal lovers on here don't think the same as you can see from some of these posts. Is it just those people who hunt them with dogs for fun and those who keep chickens along with SOME of the sheep farmers who might pick out the odd nuisance one, but would never dream of shooting everyone of them on sight, I know that for sure!
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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29-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli
Yes I agree Dawn - but I would deal with that individual fox that was a problem. I wouldn't want to see ALL foxes disappear from the British countryside. From speaking to many farmers and shepherds over the years, there are very few who have had any serious predation on lambs from foxes. I know it is more prevalent in some areas than others, and I sympathise with those who do find foxes a big problem, but again - they should deal with the individuals, not kill indiscriminately. Just my opinion.
Originally Posted by melzy
oh where did he come from i look after dogs i dont kill them if they steal food out my kitchen and if dogs didnt have owners feeding them they would kill your chickens to 
Your patronising manner is not helping as you clearly do not understand, if I can help you at all please feel free to PM me. 
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Location: Runcorn Cheshire UK
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,480
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29-10-2008, 05:21 PM
Oh for God's sake this is bordering on stupidity imo. How can you make a statement like this in all seriousness? How can a dog make an academic decision like you propose? I think this going off topic somewhat now.
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Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
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29-10-2008, 05:27 PM
Originally Posted by [B
Jackbox;1520706]And what about the little puppy you are planning to buy you will have made the decision to take it into your home, without consulting whether it wished to live with you or not... you will be handing over money for said pup... which makes you the said owner
Originally Posted by [B
[/B]Oh for God's sake this is bordering on stupidity imo. How can you make a statement like this in all seriousness? How can a dog make an academic decision like you propose? I think this going off topic somewhat now.
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Location: Runcorn Cheshire UK
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,480
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29-10-2008, 05:37 PM
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