This is the thing with using toys too. They dont have ANY of their own to start with.

NO PLANT POT for example. This is Dex's chosen toy, a toy he plays with on his OWN. SO if it were me, I would (either take a small one on a walk and see if it works or) take any access to plant pots AWAY. And any other toys too.

(Personally the plant pot thing sounds a little like he wasnt directed away from digging up bulbs as a tiny pup lol)

Food or toys can take a while. I would use a box with a lid (out of reach/access to Dex) and bring the toy out and have a great 5 sec's with it (not me and Dex, me and the toy) then quickly put it away. Then I would do this a little longer the next day, always putting it away before he can 'investigate' what the wonderful thing is....gradually building up to him chasing me for the 'wonderful thing' and not getting it, then one day gets to tug then I put it away and so on.....then build it up outdoors... always ending the game when he wants more.

It takes a while, so you need to have patience and only get the toy out when you really can be convincing!!

Eventually - the toy is worth being around but YOU are fun that means YOU are worth being around what ever else is going on because after all it will be a limited opportunity for him!

Edit; remember its not Dex's toy - its YOURS.

PS
You dont call him to you when playing with the toy (at first) it is simply such good fun....he hears you...and this list that SB posted, I would do it at these times too, but only once you know he shows interest....


but instead of shouting 'come' it would be 'oooo toy' and all that.

Once he comes wherever he is for the toy, I would say 'come' as he gets to play tug.

Of course I'm not a 'professional' and can only say what helped me but its what I have done and it worked a lot better than food (for us) so I thought it worth explaining as it seems that excitement/play is the reward he has chosen if that makes sense?

Withholding food for 3/4 days.........surely not

I think if I had to resort to such measures, I would simply accept I had a dog with an iffy recall, and adjust life around it.

I do think that sometimes you do have to accept that some dogs will never have a reliable recall, and work with what you have got.

I dont like starving animals to get results, its akin to using e.collars and aversive methods.

Yes he is a typical Lab in that respect UNTIL other dogs or people appear.

For example, someone advised me that in order to try and stop him jumpimg etc at visitors to our home, when someone arrived I should throw a treat on the floor to move him away from the door.

It did not work - Dexter didn't even LOOK at the treat, he just wanted to greet the visitor

However I'm hoping that SMOKEY BEAR is right in that if he's hungry enough, he will obey the recall command even if there are other dogs around.

I realise I also need to teach him that coming to me can be the START of fun.

Well remembered about the plant pot DOBERMANN

Many thanks indeed for your help

I did try taking a pot plant to the park - you can imagine the sort of glances we got

Dex ignored it - but reading your post I think maybe I didn't do it properly and so I need to try again with this

Many thanks indeed


Big thanks to you all - you are all being so helpful and I really appreciate it.

remember using food and toys dont need to be exclusive of each other either!!

You could be building up the toy part at home whilst using SB's suggestion in the mean time, the end result is going to be, what ever you have its a better outcome for him to come back to you....

I used a mixture, the toy, clicker and food.

Also, do you ever play with dex, without food, toys etc?

Sometimes just playing with them is good!!

Thanks for the edit on your previous post, very helpful

I play with Dex at home when he wants to which tends to be when he's in a mischevious mood. We have great fun at these times as he's such a pickle

I think I've just stumbled a bit at learning how to transfer this to the park and now I've read your suggestions I have more of an idea Many thanks.

And as you rightly say, the methods are not mutually exclusive so I can use your advice and also SB's advice too.

JACK BOX:

Many thanks for your post

I have accepted that until the recall is much improved, it's a Flexi for us in the park, because I simply will not have Dex hurtling across the fields the second he spies another dog or person in the distance

It may be that it takes a lot longer than I initially hoped to build up a truly reliable recall and I have now accepted this. Am determined to work hard to try and improve his recall as much as is possible though

Thank goodness for Flexi Leads at present, frankly!

We wiil agree to disagree with the semantics over hungry v starving.

I KNOW what starvation is, and it aint going without food for a few days!

Dogs in the wild, actually feast and fast. They gorge and then they do not eat for days.

So if I have a dog that has got the squits do I FAST it or do I STARVE it?

The two are not the same.

As I said, if you are happy not to have a reliable recall and be restricted by that fact, that is up to you.

But if you WANT a reliable recall then there is no reason you cannot have one with the majority of dogs and the majority of breeds.

I certainly would NOT equate FASTING or making a dog HUNGRY with E collars.

In fact to say such a thing is total nonsense as of course one is NEGATIVE punishment, the other is POSITIVE punishment.

STARVATION of course IS a positive punishment.

But nobody ever STARVED going without food for few days!

Tabitha; I would also play when YOU instigate play NOT DEX.

Ignore him, then play when you start the fun. Its like SB said, you need to take away first so that when he gets it it is rewarding and of course always better to keep an eye on you so he can get play when YOU say!


Think about it this way;
Dex has had a good time sunbathing in the garden. Then he instigated play and you played with him. Then he had a nice meaty bone.
Then you go to the park.
He sees a dog in the distance. You want to play with him but he can get that anytime. You try to offer food, but he's not hungry and he gets food when he needs it anyway. So whats left that is fun? The other dog.

OR

Dex is hungry. Dex hasnt had his toy today.
Dex sees a dog. 'Mum' pulls out some food. Dex is REALLY hungry, so he eats the food. Dex didnt run off so then they toy comes out and 'mum' is running backwards....hmm, play is good. Dex goes on the lead after the play and gets praise, Dex and 'mum' go home happy

so my examples might not be great lol but you get the picture

and I also said to use treats to train, I never said not to use treats just that if a foody dog couldnt take treats then they needed to start with a less stimulating time until they could take treats
Would you also have recomended that with Mia when she came to me, when she had a episode at another dog barking and lunging she was unable to take treats
Would you really have advised a 1/2 starved ex stray to have food witheld - or simply take a few paces back until she could focus

You are seriously talking about not feeding a dog for a few DAYS here?? I thought you ment skipping a couple of days

actually not feeding for several DAYS to bend a dog to your will is actually abuse

call me the devils advocate here...may have got this wrong, but I thought that SB's suggestion actually meant that food WAS on offer - the dog comes back, the dog is fed?