I didn't have much confidence on saturday when she was fighting with my dog It is wonderful to see them changing and realising that they are safe now.

I guess it's baby steps then.

I have had the privelidge of meeting Shadow, the first time was on a cold wet night on a dimly lit car park where i was bonkers enough to act as a stooge person for his owner.
His owner was bitten rather badly by him and ended up wearing a metal gauntlet to handle him for a long while.
This dog over the next three years was transformed into a dog that would approach and take food confidently from folk. He recaptured the trust in humans that he had stolen away from him.
Just shows what a bit of know how and a lot of love and dedication can achieve.

I have one of my own who was due to be PTS you can read about him here
[link removed]

It must be a very special thing to see a dog change like that, however long it takes.

I think the exciting thing is that it appears it can all be done without having to "dominate" the dog or be harsh.

ETA: Stooge Rather you than me I think, I'd have to be clad out in a suit of armour to go near .

In the case of my dog Bayley it was the harsh handling that initiated his lack of trust in people in the first place so to carry on with the same regieme would have got me nowhere.
As far as "dominating" him, that was the last thing he needed.
He needed consistency, kindness and above all a bit of understanding.
This dog has gone on to achieve a very high standard of training and Loves people a bit more these days.
He is a very special little dog he was described by a journalist once as the sort of dog who would bring your pipe and slippers and then build the Eifel tower out of matchsticks.
The fact he enjoys doing it is the greatest thing.

Hi Wys from some people on certain forums, plus I dont use ecollars, I have used a prong collar on one dog back in the 90's, others I use voice, posture etc what ever works for that particular dog, yes a dog can be trained with rewards but also as you are aware sometimes with certain dogs you do need the occaisional negative. Luckily at the moment i do have 4 dogs who will do anything for food even recall in mid chase of prey. The problem is some people dont set boundries and are not firm, fair or consistent trainers/owners, then complain there now juvenile/adult dog is out of control.

And for those of us who rehome/foster these dogs it can be very difficult to change their behaviours.

But not impossible!
I have four rescues and have the most wonderful relationship with them. Three are working cockers with strong working instincts who some may find difficult.
I think you can be consistant and fair and set out your ground rules but it still comes down to either punishing the wrong behaviour or training the correct one which is the option I prefer.
For me a strong relationship has to be built on trust and it is whether you take the risk of compromising that trust?
If you want a dog to do something, make it worth their while, and if you want your dog to like you, make interacting with you pleasant, not unpleasant. If you don't like a behaviour, make some other behaviour in its place more worth their while, while making the problem behaviour less effective.Aversives can result in aggression, emotionality, disempowerment and other difficult to predict problems. This IMO cannot influence your training positively.

I agree with you Johan. These accusations are so typical of people who don't know what we do. Nobody but club members know what my dogs do because they are the models of the sweet friendly behavior. My club, like yours is not a hangout of young men trying to prove something. It is a social group of middle agers and some retirees. I happen to be one of the youngest there. I've never had someone suggest that my chess playing, endurance running or science research was particularly "macho"

I had never heard of training disks, so thanks for the link. Doesn't sound like something I would ever use. My dog had to be pulled from a clicker class because she was so afraid of the clicking sound she just shut down, with all that clicking all round her. I can see how these disks in a class setting would be disasterous and why the APDT would ban their use.