Im sorry Gnasher, but that isnt really a valid reason in anyone's world for not explaining what you mean when you say you tried "everything". After all, you made this statement in a very major way, with comments such as you tried every training there is and lots of trainers and behaviourists. They are quite sweeping big statements to make. So the onus is on the one says such thing to back them up.
Otherwise, they are just empty words.
Its a cop out to give disingenuous reasons why you cant explain yourself. Its basic common sense in all walks of life. You wouldnt stand up with such lines in a court of law, as one example. And its the sort of slippery langauge we always criticise politicans for.
Why on earth would i criticise you if you had indeed tried very hard many things?
The point is if you felt the need to use an ecollar, be straight abot it and dont flesh it out with meaningless statements like you tried every training their is, tried lots of trainers, the situation was desperate/very serious/last chance, epsecially when you go on to describe incidents that dont even fit those descriptions.

No, no, no Mish, I don't mean the PM, I KNEW you would think that was what I was referring to.

Off you go now, get busy, quicksticks!! You obviously have a dreadfully guilty conscience else you wouldn't be using SUCH disgraceful language!!

As for THAT apology - it was absolutely disgraceful. Tupacs was so smug in that she totally refused to believe me that Hal had had his hips scored. I rubbed her face in it, and she then flatly refused to apologise to me. I call that extremely bad form. NEVER NEVER NEVER have I EVER refused to apologise to anyone, I would not be so mean spirited.

I have been wrong many many times and I shall be wrong many many more times before I am six feet under. It is a pity that some other people cannot learn the same good manners.

Click on my name & you can search every post ive ever wrote

Tassle, I agree, but you must understand that it is not something I could air. It is because I trusted YOU - and I can see that my trust is not misplaced, I thank you for that - that I told you.

YOU lying Bitch.
You lying lying lying lying bitch

I know!!

There's an awful lot though

Mish: you really must calm down, you are going to blow a gasket!!

PM:

Originally Posted by Gnasher
Misflynn, I need to respond to your post, as I don't think you have a handle on the fact that all dogs are easy to train as your collies!! I remember you saying to me how much you admire Tai, but that you could never have a dog like him because he wouldn't be obedient enough in comparison to a collie.

This is true - he IS very obedient, considering his breeding, but he is nowhere near the standard that can be achieved - admittedly with a lot of hard work, and I admire you for that - with lovely collies. You are being unfair I feel to compare the two breeds, or rather types, as Tai and Ben are not breeds.

Tai is a very distant low % wolf cross, ben, being son of Hal, is more recent and higher content. He is aloof like his dad, and totally not interested in pleasing you, only himself. All the training in the world on long lines, rattle bottles, clickers, whatever you like to name, is NEVER going to work. At best, some things occasionally work, like titbits. Unlike his father, Ben loves titbits, and will sometimes come for a reward IF there is nothing better to pursue, like a squirrel, go and say hello to another dog, or an interesting smell.

You know how much I love and am besotted with my boys. Do you think I would ever do anything to hurt the son of my beloved Hal? He had to suffer a high level stim twice, only twice, to learn that when we say "Come!" he comes. He doesn't have to come like a collie, with devotion and a desire to be obedient, he can stop and have a sniff on the way back, but come back he must, otherwise we will never be able to let him off the lead, and that is something I will never do with a free spirit like my Ben, or indeed any dog.

Sorry if you think I am a heel and an abuser, but if only you could see how unconcerned Ben was when Mike had to zap him - according to Mike, and I have no reason to disbelieved him - you would agree that for some dogs - and I do say SOME dogs - as a last resort, an e collar is not the evil it is portrayed.

xx nikki xx
Im a dog trainer i train all breeds, including northern breeds & allsorts, so dont give me, you can only train collies ****, its bollocks.

Its your dog you should have taken the shock.

A ecollar is EVIL, its horrid & not required. & its BANNED in wales, so think yourself lucky you dont live here, or id have reported you,

You cant justify the use to me, its horrid & you both are useless & shouldnt even own a dog if thats how you treat it.

Im So dissapointed in you , i honestly thought ypou were one of the good guys.




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wtf!!! i apologized to you for not believing you had them done..but also said it was 'after the fact' (after you'd already bred from him)your memory really is failing and your ego is too inflated!
you used to be friendly to me until you realized i wasnt falling for the crap that all my dogs bar my collie were wolf crosses and that yours very likely had no wolf in them either!
it bugs you i know what im talking about because i live with sibes,northern inuit their crosses and a wolfdog !!

no she isnt bugged layla, cos your dogs arent "special" , Patronising Cow