Border Collie/Springer inteligence split from Woody thread

OMG, that is so offensive a unaccurate, im completly fuming.Collies are not thick !!!!!! Saying "no offense" does not make it not offensive.

You & your trainer clearly dont understand anything about collies .

Dude, the person who wrote that comment wasn't trying to be offensive. It was just one way of putting the differences in how dog breeds act in regard to training. Everyone knows that BC's are not thick.

I told you not to take offence the comment was very tongue in cheek and how a well behaved collie comes across, very very clever and do exactly as they are told, where as springers, only do what they are told some of the time, and when they can see something in it for them,

FWIW she actually competed at obedience, with her collie

I don't think the comment was meant as offensive.
Having owned Collies I know exactly what was meant by this.
Collies are intelligent and pick things up quickly...they are very responsive to the handler and do everything can to please...they WANT to do whatever you say and generally (with good handling) do. They are very clever.

Flat Coats are just as intelligent as collies...BUT there is a big difference. They are very selective about when they use their intelligence, how they use their intelligence and who they use it for. They pick things up just as quickly as collies...BUT they think about whether they want to do it or not.

A simple example. All of our collies, when told to sit by the back door, would do it before you have finished saying the word, all of our Flat Coats have thought about what is in it for them....

I don't want this thread to go off topic, as that wouldn't be fair on Pidge and the problems she is experiencing. However, I would have said that springers are like border collies WITHOUT the brains Collies are super intelligent, as we all know, and our working sheepdogs often have to work on their own initiative - without commands.

Back on topic.

Pidge - I am not going to try and offer any advice, as you have already had more than enough and your head must be bursting.

What I would say is that Moss (my working bred collie) was like Woody without the aggression and was a complete nightmare as a pup/teenager. Work sorted him out. I wonder if Woody would show such problem behaviour and traits if he were to work. I understand you want to keep him and try and sort through his issues to the best of your ability, but please don't consider having him pts before you offer him to the police or as a working gundog for a gamekeeper or the like.

No-one could work harder than you have and are doing with Woody, but unfortunately sometimes hard work and love are just not enough I hate to sound so negative, and I TRULY do hope you manage to keep Woody and resolve his issues, so he becomes a happy and well-adjusted adult.

Thanks Ramble........for this comment
I don't think the comment was meant as offensive.
Having owned Collies I know exactly what was meant by this.
Collies are intelligent and pick things up quickly...they are very responsive to the handler and do everything can to please...they WANT to do whatever you say and generally (with good handling) do. They are very clever.

My 3 are all Now ............

I LOVE collies..I LOVE collies a lot.

Flat Coats were a seriously steep learning curve after collies though!!!

I don't think the comment was offensive either, it made me laugh.

(but then from your description Ramble, I think Stumpy must be a flat coat - she's always 'whats in it for me' + she loves water )

I think her and Cosmo would get on really well!

Awwwwwwww my three LOVE you as well ........(mental note....don't get a flat coat)