They are all beautiful Jessica, Love all the photo's!

I think you will find the foremost veterinary suirgeons in this country may not agree with your Vet Jessica, as for not being knowledgable I think they may be a tad offended by your statement! I would be happy to provide info on cruciate damage being hereditary. You also stated on a Labrador forum I am on, that Chloe's first litter was her last litter and that you are NOT a breeder!!

As a responsible breeder, its your duty to inform buyers that your bitch has had a problem that could render a dog imobile and is classed by leading Veterinary orthopeadic surgeons as in most cases an inherited weakness.

I am not having a go here, just utterly amazed, genuinely.
Dawn.

Im sorry, please tell me here how it is ANY of your business whether we choose to breed our dogs or not? Just cos i said on a forum that we "probably" wouldn't breed again from her, that doesn't give you the right to say that we shouldn't. How dare you be so condescending when you know nothing about me, my dogs, or our situation. Chloe's pedigree, previous litter and show record, was good enough to warrant us deciding to breed from her again and i do not appreciate being spoken down to by people who have no idea what they're talking about with regards to MY dog.

If you read my previuous post you'd see we spoke to SEVERAL different vets about Chloe. The vet who performed the surgery (at Willows referal clinic, i believe possibly the best place for this operation, no?) was the one who told us that it is almost cxertainly not hereditary and not to believe the nonsense spread on the internet. If you are a qualified vet i would consider your argument, but you are not. We had a number of vets look at Chloe, and her x rays and they all said that we should go ahead and breed from her, the injury, or the fact that she had it, has absolutely no proven relevance for not breeding her.

Now would you please refrain from arguing with me on this thread. It was simply put up to show pictures of my dogs. If you have a problem then PM me but i dont want another thread turned into argument. I can assure you that every checked was done to ensure Chloe was able to have these puppies as safely as possible, and she's has been checked up regularly throughout this pregnancy and both she and the puppies, will recieve continued veterniary checks.


As for telling the people who buy the puppies (and we have plenty of people wanting them, dont worry) that their puppy will be "rendered immobile" - I disagree. Of course we will say that Chloe had this injury, but we will also say that it is NOT proven to be hereditary (fact) and that, as they could see from Chloe, and her show record, it can be fixed very well if it does happen and certainly doesn't render them immobile. Chloe's movement is perfect as is her leg. If the potential owners then choose to speak to another vet (which we would probably advise if they're worried) then its entirely their decision.

For gods sake Jessica stop spitting your dummy out of the pram! I suggest you READ what you posted on the other forum, (before you left in a huff!!) probably was NOT mentioned!!!

that their puppy will be "rendered immobile" -
READ what I said again! I am sure I mentioned "could"

Well I guess that makes it ok then!

Stop getting your hair off, calm down and READ what is posted. At no time did I say you shouldnt, I said I am VERY surprised that you would!!!!
Dawn.

The second quote of mine was clearly a response to you saying the dog would be rendered immobile, which you have taken out of context. They are NOT rendered immobile, the operation is a very successful procedure. Chloe's first litter have had NO medical problems whatsoever, and we, and the vets we have consulted see no reason why they would.

I am sick of arguing this with you, you dont understand the problem as a vet would and therefore i am not wasting my time telling you about it, i suggest you speak directly to vets who treat dogs with this before you start accusing people of being irresponsible in breeding there dogs, it is offensive, especially after all we've done to find out the risks.

I honestly dont know what forum you are talking about, the only Lab forum i am a member of i have never left in a huff, and very rarely post there so i dont know if you have got confused. I posted on here that we had planned to have a litter from Meg this year, but Meg has not finished maturing, and we thought we would like another puppy from Chloe, bred specifically to show.

Now as i said previously (i assume you overlooked rather than ignored it) please do NOT reply to this thread unless you plan to comment on the pictures. PM me if you want to carry on this pointless argument.

Oh, and just to add, in response to your last statement, i believe the very fact of you bringing up what i supposedly said on another forum, and saying that i said i am not a breeder (which i dont consider myself to be btw) surely implies that you think i shouldn't be breeding her. If not, please tell me what you meant by that, via PM.

I suggest you do a little more research into what you seem to see as a minor problem.

You wrote:
We are not breeders. That was our one and only litter from Chloe. We may have a litter from Meg but havent decided for sure. Therefore, i feel no need to stick around just to argue my point of view. I have no illusions of changing the breed. We are just owners who love our dogs and the breed but have neither the time or money to breed the sort of labs we like (traditional ones).
No mention of probably!.

Sounds familiar. (see above quote)

Regardless of what you think Jessica, I couldnt give a flying cod fish if you breed dogs or not, but you seem extremely blase about a condition that most responsible breeders see as a serious issue for your breed. What is your responsibility is to ENSURE that you breed healthy animls, in my opinion, you are not doing that. Thats all I have to say on the matter, I only hope Chloe's puppies do not suffer in the future, the past or upcoming litter, as I think in the latter case, you could of made sure it wouldnt happen.
Dawn.

Thank you for not commenting any more on the matter, i see you're just repeating yourself.

To repeat myself yet again, we have been told by EXPERTS in this area that it almost definately will nto affect any of chloes puppies, unless they have a similar accident to Chloe, which could happen to any dog. Breeders we spoke to (top ones in this, and similar breeds) all said they see no reason to not breed from Chloe, they've bred from dogs with it and have had no puppies have it, or even have any weakness in the legs.

It is not a minor problem, we';ve been through it (im assuming you have as well to know so much about it of course) and although it was awful our dog is fine and in perfect health. You make it sound as if its life threatening, which theres no reason it should be, which again makes me think you dont know as much as you seem to believe you do. If you spoke to the experts im sure they'd tell you exactly what they told us. I can give you phone numbers and addresses if you really wanted.

Im fairl;y sure that quote backs up what i've said, that was the one and only litter we'd had from Chloe, and we hadn't decided for sure whether to have a litter from Meg or not, as i said. We decided to have another (the final one, she will be spayed) from Chloe.

Now please leave this. It is none of your business what we do with our dogs. You say we're breeding from unhealthy dogs, i, and the experts in the field, disagree. I could tell you a whole load of breeders who breed from very unhealthy dogs, bad hipos, bad eyes, all sorts, but i wont because its none of my business. If people dont want to buy our puppies thats fine. We will be straight with them, and even let them speak to Chloe's vet if they want. But i do believe you have no say in it.

Whatever Jessica, you believe what you like, if you think its ok to breed from a dog that has had a ruptured cruciate ligament, you go right ahead, you have anyway. I just feel very sorry for the resulting puppies should they be unfortunate enohgh to suffer a similar problem, very sad.
Dawn.

Im not repeating myself again. Everybody can read what i have already told you repeatedly so i see no point arguing with you anymore. You're clearly not willing to take advice or comments from anyone else you see as "less experienced" than you or "less knowledgable" - Thats your problem. We know we did what we did with expert opinion saying that there was NO risk to mum or pups added from Chloe's injury. There is NO proof of it being hereditary, and you have not swayed me at all on that fact so i dont understand what your problem is. I dont know who you got your "facts" from, but i can assure you that we got ours from surgeons who see hundreds and hundreds of dogs with this injury every year, and are responsible for fixing it. They are confident that it is not hereditary or detrimental to any future puppies' health, so i will take their advice over yours i think.

As I said, whatever! Your excuses hold no interest for me Jessica.
Dawn.