Sounds like it all happened in and instant. Do you think she would have obeyed the whistle command to stop, given the chance or was there a gap long enough for her to react between whistle and shock?

Takes many forms, but the context in which I used it which may well have led to subsequent comments and beliefs of others is in respect of, simply, emulating what happens within the pack in training.

The 'purists' (for want of a better word) go whole hog with the alpha roll, not letting the dog take a higher position, eating before the dog etc.

The posts I commented on (and I'm going from memory here) at first suggested to me that you didn't buy into it and yet in other posts you got 'lost' in what happens within a litter and how dogs behave with each other.

I don't understand your first sentence, did you mean to say they do not all use it the same way?

I have no idea of the origin of the term, I'm old, but not that old.

See my (several) posts that explain what the shock should be associated with.

All it "proves" is that I haven't gotten around to it yet, I only have ten fingers and one keyboard. Glad to know you are so anxious to hear my reply!

Oh dear. I think we have all been wound up enough.

Firstlight, do some research on modern training techniques.
Karen Pryor is a good place to start.

Win? Didn't know this was a contest.

I find it eminently interesting that people choose to use electric collars in order to get their dogs to obey them purely for a sport and pot hunting; for nothing more than their own ego.

Yet those dogs on whom people rely to save lives etc eg:

Dogs which detect mines, explosives, firearms, drugs
Dogs which find bodies under avalanches or earthquakes
Dogs which detect cancer
Dogs which can alert their owners to an impending seizure, drop in blood sugar etc
Dogs which are used to assist the blind, deaf and physically handicapped
Dogs which are used to apprehend criminals

etc etc etc

can all be trained to do this (eminently much more difficult tasks) with just a clicker and some food.

Puts it all into perspective for me.

As Suzanne Clothier says,

Where knowledge ends, violence begins.

Anyone is invited to post anything and as many times as they wish to, never said otherwise. I just have no time to respond to repetitive posts.

If no one can even agree to using the collar, why would you be surprised at the disagreement re: how to use them??

Have you read my responses to folks who actually wanted to educate me and have a dialog? I am "talking about mine" in response to people who have actual questions about the use of the collar.

No defense necessary, and I think I have given a pretty good explanation of why I use the collar for this purpose in response to actual questions; which in case you haven't noticed, have been pretty scarce. If you have questions regarding my explanation, please ask them.

Lizzy, it is my guess that, like some other posters, what you have seen, is the result of the collar in the hands on an ignoramus. And the $ comment is just plain silly, I was winning and selling pups before they were on the ground for years before I used a collar.