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Location: dogsville
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29-07-2009, 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua 
"kick and choke their dogs" - really, all these pages and still the same old, same old, it's sooooooooooooo boring. This subject never moves on and it cannot when all the same stuff comes up "kicking" "choking" "stringing up" - that isn't all that CM is about yet it's all that can be dragged up to discredit him. I give up. Some people won't listen
Pointless talking when people only see what they want to see
He kicks dogs in the side.
He puts a lead high up around their necks in an attempt to 'control them but does actually choke them given the heavy breathing/panting they do.
Not sure how you can't see that.
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29-07-2009, 07:19 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
No. You made a statement about your dogs not having recall issues because they saw you as leader and I wondered what you meant.
I said I doubt that they'd have issues with recall. I had several dogs before (Yorkies and a Bichon) that have had perfect recall and no doubt the Chis would too but it became evident, very early on, that because irresponsible dog owners allow their dogs offlead to attack my little ones, I need to have them right next to me, to make sure they are not hurt.I said that I doubted I'd have issues with recall! I only say this because I have no problem in the garden, if I want them in or in the house if I call them. They are an obedient bunch on the whole and they look to me for direction, so I'm assuming recall would be okay. That I'd call and they'd come but who knows. Like I said, I can't comment on what I don't know for sure. No doubt though, you'll try to discredit everything I just said. That's okay though, cos I'm used to having anything I say criticised by you
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29-07-2009, 07:20 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
He uses ecollars.
He kicks dogs in the side.
He puts a lead high up around their necks in an attempt to 'control them but does actually choke them given the heavy breathing/panting they do.
Not sure how you can't see that.
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Location: dogsville
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29-07-2009, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua
I'm not even going there Ramble. You know what I'd say if I could be bothered to reply. The same has been said page after page on this and every other CM thread and I'm not wasting my time. I see why Mish got out of here, it's just mad the way this thread is going in circles
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TRE7Zv7xdE
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Location: Yorkshire, UK
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,890
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29-07-2009, 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua
"kick and choke their dogs" - really, all these pages and still the same old, same old, it's sooooooooooooo boring. This subject never moves on and it cannot when all the same stuff comes up "kicking" "choking" "stringing up" - that isn't all that CM is about yet it's all that can be dragged up to discredit him. I give up. Some people won't listen
Pointless talking when people only see what they want to see
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Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
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29-07-2009, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by CheekyChihuahua
Firstly, I didn't say aggression was the only issue a dog can have, so let's not start twisting things, eh
My dogs don't have any issues with the above. Can't comment on the "recall" as I have to keep my dogs onlead for their own safely, so that could be a problem if ever we moved and I allowed them off-lead, who knows
I doubt it though as they look to me for leadership, so I shouldn't think it would be too much of a problem.In my opinion, people make big deals of some natural behaviour. Sure the first time you bath a dog, they are a little afraid. I don't fiff and faff, it's a new experience for them and with their owner showing confidence and carrying on, by the next bath, they are perfectly fine. Years ago, people didn't spend hours on forums or have their noses in books or using clickers for training, the dogs just followed their owners lead and I don't recall growing up around any problem dogs.
Nowadays, going by this thread, you're not regarded as an owner that understands dogs unless you've read half a dozen books and attended a few seminars, which I find utterly ridiculous
If you cannot see the stress signals exhibited by the dogs on CM's programmes - one of 2 things is happening...
Either a) You do not understand the signals ths dog is giving off or b) you do not agree with the recognised stress signals that everyone else seems to.
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29-07-2009, 07:34 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
This sort of sums it up...okay not choking or kicking,just hitting.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TRE7Zv7xdE
The bit I saw was CM not HITTING as in violent to hurt but pushing the dog away with his hand. It's much like the kick argument. A kick or a tap with the foot type thing.
I am assuming that the owners of the dog had issues with the dog attacking their chickens (assuming, don't know) so CM was doing what he does. The dog wasn't strung up or choked but now he's "hitting" - I swear if the man kissed a dog, you'd be saying he assaulted the dog with his lips
Honestly, I'm gonna dip out this thread. It's pointless because it's going nowhere. I'll check back and if things ever do move on (won't hold my breath), then I'll gladly come back in but I'm not going to go over the same old thing. It's a waste of my time.
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Location: uk
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29-07-2009, 07:35 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6ru7...eature=channel
Im an opinionated bossy cow, and I have to admit that the threads on here changed my opinion of CM.
Ramble.
Just what did I change your opinion on????
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Location: Dogsey and Worcestershire
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 49,483
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29-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
He uses collars.
He kicks dogs in the side.
He puts a lead high up around their necks in an attempt to 'control them but does actually choke them given the heavy breathing/panting they do.
Not sure how you can't see that.
you are in good company with your observations..‘Dog Whisperer’ Training Approach More Harmful Than HelpfulDenver (September 6, 2006)The training tactics featured on Cesar Millan’s “Dog Whisperer” program are inhumane, outdated and improper, according to a letter sent yesterday to the National Geographic Channel by American Humane, the oldest national organization protecting children and animals.
In the letter, American Humane, which works to raise public awareness about responsible pet ownership and reduce the euthanasia of unwanted pets, expressed dismay over the “numerous inhumane training techniques” advocated by Cesar Millanorganisation on “Dog Whisperer.”
Several instances of cruel and dangerous treatment — promoted by Millan as acceptable training methods — were documented by American Humane, including one in which a dog was partially asphyxiated in an episode. In this instance, the fractious dog was pinned to the ground by its neck after first being “hung” by a collar incrementally tightened by Millan. Millan’s goal — of subduing a fractious animal — was accomplished by partially cutting off the blood supply to its brain.
The letter requests that National Geographic stop airing the program immediately and issue a statement explaining that the tactics featured on the program are inhumane, and it encourages National Geographic to begin developing programming that sets a positive example by featuring proper, humane animal training. In its letter, American Humane said: “We believe that achieving the goal of improving the way people interact with their pets would be far more successful and beneficial for the National Geographic Channel if it ceased sending the contradictory message that violent treatment of animals is acceptable.”“As a forerunner in the movement towards humane dog training, we find the excessively rough handling of animals on the show and inhumane training methods to be potentially harmful for the animals and the people on the show,” said the letter’s author, Bill Torgerson, DVM, MBA, who is vice president of Animal Protection Services for American Humane. “It also does a disservice to all the show’s viewers by espousing an inaccurate message about what constitutes effective training and appropriate treatment of animals.”Torgerson noted that the safety of a woman and her German shepherd were jeopardized in one episode by the use of an electric shock collar, which forced the tormented dog to redirect its aggression at its owner, biting her arm. “Furthermore, the television audience was never told that Mr. Millan was atowardttempting to modify tjeopardisedhe dog’s behaviour by causing pain with the shock collar,” he said.
For more information about humane training techniques, please visit click here.About the American Humane AssociationFounded in 1877, the American Humane Association is the oldest national organisation dedicated to protectingtoward both children and animals..
In previous threads members have posted the views of the most respected behaviourists and trainers in the world on the methods used and advocated by CM ( people like Jean Donaldson) , I will not repost them again, they can be found when searching previous threads on the same subject . Needless to say they do not support CMs methods neither does the latest research on canine behaviour (also mentioned in previous threads).
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29-07-2009, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
Now who's twisting things!
If you cannot see the stress signals exhibited by the dogs on CM's programmes - one of 2 things is happening...
Either a) You do not understand the signals ths dog is giving off or b) you do not agree with the recognised stress signals that everyone else seems to.
And it's not "everyone" just some
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