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Myrsky<3
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12-02-2015, 09:57 AM
Thanks gnasher for your answer, I didn't know about the different respond to People, but makes sense to me I encourage my Partner to not take it personally, but yes it hurts him sometimes. Anyway we go on with training, and he is a little better as before.
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mjfromga
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12-02-2015, 10:04 AM
I won't stand for being bitten. I've had weird infections and whatnot from skin being broken by biting puppies. I remove the puppy when he does this, many puppies respond to a gentle reprimand with more biting, thinking you are playing with them. You could try ignoring it, but that doesn't always work, as it's hard not to say OW as their teeth dig into you and it just doesn't always work.

When puppy does this, try redirecting him, if this fails, take him and his toy to his crate or another room and leave them there. Don't carry him, get his leash etc. and guide him there. Remove him after a while, and if he does it again, repeat. My boy learned this way, smart dogs soon get the association. I'm not sure how well this works on densies, but your boy is likely smart, so whatever method you choose will likely work in time.

Tell your boyfriend, who, based on his comments, knows very little about dogs that the mouthing is normal and he's just a playful puppy. It has nothing to do with him disliking your boyfriend. Your boyfriend is going to have to learn about dogs and learn to stay calm if raising Myrsky to be a well behaved dog is to be accomplished.
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Strangechilde
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12-02-2015, 03:29 PM
Myra's quite right about it having nothing to do with Myrsky not liking your boyfriend. It actually may be completely the opposite. It's quite possible that Myrsky sees your boyfriend as the the most wonderful, wonderful, wonderful person, his favourite playmate-- whereas you are Mum, and he knows he can't get away with that sort of thing with you.

It's a difficult thing for Myrsky to learn at his age, and it is impossible for him not to chew at all-- all puppies chew; they need to. But he does need to learn to stop chewing on your boyfriend. Ignoring it isn't going to help, because the chewing is its own reward. If all he wanted was attention, ignoring might be the way to go, but if he wants chewing and attention, he'll happily settle for just chewing if he thinks your boyfriend doesn't care if he chews or not.

My little sister succeeded with her Malamute by yelling 'OW!!!', getting up abruptly, and leaving the puppy alone for a while.

I had a problem with Berkeley when he was little, in that he had been taken away from his mother so young that he never learned any bite inhibition. I tried everything. What worked for me-- and I'm sure your boyfriend won't like this-- is, every time I felt those little needle teeth on my hand, I'd just close my hand around his jaw. Not hard, just enough to be annoying, and enough that he couldn't get away. Otherwise, I'd just ignore him, then after a few seconds I'd be like 'Oh, did you want something?' let go and give him a chewie. This hurt a lot. Really a lot-- but he quickly got the message that the chewing on hands game is not fun. Of course, Berkeley is a much smaller dog than Myrsky, so that may be completely not viable in your case.
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Dibbythedog
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12-02-2015, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by Myrsky<3 View Post
Good morning!
Actually,to come back to the main topic, my partner was very upset and sad yesterday, because myrsky is still mouthing his clothes and hands..he tries hard with giving other toys instead, take his hands off/ leave, saying no, and basically saying sit when he doesn't stop. sometimes my boyfriends voice gets a little louder (he's got already a very deep voice) I tell him to stay calm, but he is frustrated and said myrsky doesn't like him. Its just so weird he isn't doing it with me.We have to be patient I know,.....just had to tell you -.-

Dogs respond differently to individual people because each person acts and responds differently towards the dog and dogs pick up these, sometimes very slight, differences very quickly.

I'm not sure of your set up ,are you at home more than your boyfriend , does your boyfriend do much training with Myrsky? If your BF isnt at home so much , Myrsky will be more excited when he sees him . if he doesnt train Mrysky much , he is less likely to sit when your boyfriend asks when he is overexcited .
I would tell your boyfriend that Myrsky finds him much more fun and exciting than you!
I would compare the differences in how you and your BF act with Myrsky, is your BF consistant , when trying to stop him grabbing does your BF jump from one thing to another too quickly, Getting impatient or annoyed can rev a dog up .

ETA just had a look back at the beginning of the thread -

. My Boyfriend is at work from 7 to 4/5 and I stay with the dog. When my Boyfriend comes home the Puppy is really excited, thats ok, but when we want to play with him he is kind of freaking out, biting a lot
This answers one of my questions, dogs tend to be less excited with people who are there all the time and also you have more tiem to train him . Every interaction with your pup is a training session whether you mean it to be or not . maybe your BF should not play with Myrsky when he comes home and wait until he as calm as possible.
Alison
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Myrsky<3
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13-02-2015, 06:06 AM
Thanks Alison yes he is exited and we/BF try to calm him down, before he starts doing something like playing, its just really hard(for both ), and yes my BF is consistant, but maybe annoyed too quickly he isn't patient not just with the dog.I tell him every day to improove it.
Another Question: Im actually a fan of positive training, but I read something which made me thinking.. he's only listening when you've got a treat in your hand or "hungry" was a comment to not use only pt.I noticed on the walks that Myrsky looks at me but only respond when he sees my hand going to my pockets to grab a treat. I want him to listen because he wants to do it for me,... he gets of course lots of praise too.Which method do you use to make your dog listen and respond to you?!
And thanks mjfromga and Strangechilde too, really good advice and I think we will do anything possible. At first My BF gives M. his toys to chew/play instead but M. only wants attention from my Partner he's not interested much by his toys then, I really think he loves my BF.So he jumps and mouth on his hoodie/pants. then my Bf says always in a stern voice "no" and when he let go give him chew toys and pad him when he's bit more calm.When he starts again and its even worst my BF says sit, and give him another try to not bite, if he doesn't stop he leaves him.
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Myrsky<3
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13-02-2015, 06:28 AM
ahh and yes he says "ouch" too. That makes Myrsky sometimes stop.
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Dibbythedog
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13-02-2015, 02:28 PM
Originally Posted by Myrsky<3 View Post
ahh and yes he says "ouch" too. That makes Myrsky sometimes stop.
Thats good that he stops sometimes. I wonder if there is a way to reinforce this with out using food so that he stops more frequently but also doesnt get him too excited.

does he like scritches on his tummy , would he calm down if you BF put his arm around his neck and shoulders and scratched or rubbed his chest? my Libby , the pocket rocket, likes scritches just above her tail , it helps distract her. Maybe you could try that , see what works as a reward.
Pups are primed to play and to keep coming back , they are preparing and practising for life ahead so dont feel too disheartened if it takes a while for them to get the message . I would hope that having other pups to play with will help satisfy Myrsky and give him an outlet.

Soemtimes the reality of having a puppy doesnt match the dream. Its not easy and they are such hard work and that's why so many get dumped after a few weeks . They are also very rewarding and it feels sooo good when they catch on to what you want . You're doing very well, so dont get too downhearted and remember the porgress you have made.
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Dibbythedog
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13-02-2015, 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Myrsky<3 View Post
Another Question: Im actually a fan of positive training, but I read something which made me thinking.. he's only listening when you've got a treat in your hand or "hungry" was a comment to not use only pt.I noticed on the walks that Myrsky looks at me but only respond when he sees my hand going to my pockets to grab a treat. I want him to listen because he wants to do it for me,... he gets of course lots of praise too.Which method do you use to make your dog listen and respond to you?!
.
There's an argument that there is no such thing as 100%
positive reinforcement training, not even clicker training is.

Different methods work and which ever way you chose there are always drawbacks but usually its the trainer/ owner that causes the problems because they dont fully understand the principles of training and how dogs learn .
I've said this before , that whenever anyone says my dog is stupid , then its usually them thats the stupid one not the dog. and I admit that I've said that myself

I'm glad to hear you are doing some reading and getting all views points . I dont know what you've read or what you know but if you really want to understand about training I would read Dont shoot the dog by karen pryor. The last "new" edition I believe was printed in 2002 but
well worth reading
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Shoot-D...der_1860542387


David ryan's Dog Secrets also from amazon .

This website is good for explanations

http://www.training-your-dog-and-you.com/

ETA How dogs learn by Birch and bailey , its a bit textbooky but its easy to find the bits you want.

i think if understand enough about training then you will be able to answer your own questions.
Good points though and I will get back to you. I have things that need doing .
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Dibbythedog
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13-02-2015, 09:00 PM
I want him to listen because he wants to do it for me,...
This is a human thing, we want out dogs to obey us or do things because they love us. For dogs, they dont do things to please us , eager- to - please dogs are those that are appeasive and want to stay out of trouble.
Dogs aren't that complex , things are safe or dangerous , rewarding or not rewarding , they live in the present and react to things happening around them.

I noticed on the walks that Myrsky looks at me but only respond when he sees my hand going to my pockets to grab a treat.
What are you asking him to do , if this for recall .
It might be that he sees the hand in pocket as part of the cue for come or what ever command you are using . Its called over cueing and its easily done as dogs take in our body language as well as spoken words.

What are doing? are your luring or rewarding him after he has come to you . ?
For come , I dont tend to lure . if you reward after he has come , Have the treat hidden , dont put your hand in your pocket or give him the treat until he has come to you .
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Dibbythedog
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14-02-2015, 01:32 PM
Myrsky
he's only listening when you've got a treat in your hand or "hungry" was a comment to not use only pt
you could say that say that a dog only listens when he wears an ecollar or rattle your training discs or can of pennies.
Positive reinforcement is using what the dog finds rewarding , its not necessarily food , same with positive punishment and negative reinforcement methods , what is " punishing" or an aversive for one dog isnt for another .
What ever you use , generally you will have to give a reminder at some time or another and I'd rather remind my dogs my using something nice rather than nasty , though yes , I have used a sterner tone ocasionally when I know my dogs throughly understand what I want. I dont use a harsher or louder when i start to train a new behaviour , it doesn't help then understand anymore than shouting at someone helps them understand English.

When you train with PR , you reward a lot at first and then you vary the reinforcement rate , there are various schedules of reinforcent , until you end up with just a maintenance rate. Generally when you repeat an excercise over time , it can becomes second nature and the dogs reacts by habit rather than an expected treat .

i over treat my dogs , I like them to earn treats rather than be given treats for nothing . hands in pockets is brilliant for gathering up all your dogs or get all them to follow behind you , sometimes you gather up other peoples dogs too .
Once we passed by terrier man who walks six dogs and we had six dogs , got to opposite sied of the fields and I had 8 dogs and he only had four and we hadnt noticed
People ask me how i trained them to do that and I say I didnt , they just do it .

people say they can train their dog 100% to instant recall with PR , I havent achieved that with Pip , if he is still running around after a squirrel , he does respond to stop and stay and then I go and get him .

I like to use mainly PR , I want what most people want , a dog that doesnt pull on the lead , comes back when called and doesnt jump up . The dosg I've adopted have/had problems so my main concern is sorting those , i dont bother with give a paw or roll over. I did get interested in dnacing dogs , and took pip to spin , not really a good idea to teach an excitable Jrtx to spin You learn by your mistakes .
I cant lift pip , I taught him to jump in the bath with PR so i can rinse off the mud , theres no way i could have forced him into the bath . other stuff like teaching Ginnie jap chin that brushing her is not going to hurt and she doesnt need to bite me , she was so phobic about grooming and bathing , she must have been punished , but in the end she was fine .
PIP and Libby are both reactive dogs , they have made progess (using a clicker )but then regressed becuase I can't control other peoples dogs and they have been attacked so it's an on going battle.
I look at each dog temperament , back ground and what needs to be done , and I find generally that PR works so I use mainly PR, .
I'm in my late 50s so i remember the 1960s and 70s where using a choke chain to yank then back when they pull and wacking dogs with rolled up newspapers or rubbing noses in their wee was standard advice , this is abuse but it was considered acceptable then but it inspired trainers to look for better ways to train .

Of course , most people dont do this now I would hope and saying you use PP or NP doesnt mean you are harsh or use harsh methods. A time out or non reward are frequently used by trainers who mainly use PR.

Negative punishment and positive punishment works but it depends on the tool if you use one and how good the trainer is and the nature of the dog.
If it goes wrong, it can cause damage to the dog, it can make them defensive or phobic of certain situations for example and its hard to right the situation and they may have to be rehabilitated.
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