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Vicki_Ann
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Vicki_Ann is offline  
Location: London, UK
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 445
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29-08-2010, 10:03 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Can I ask which kennels it was? Did he have any paperwork from his previous owners?
Capel Manor, and no paperwork. His previous owner was arrested and sent back to Ireland under curfew, he wouldn't even give the dogs' name. Bear was retrieved as an abandoned dog and no paperwork was found for him. Which is a shame, I'm sure his breeders would like to know where he is and I'm sure they would have liked to have the opportunity to find him a home when this all happened.
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rune
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29-08-2010, 10:07 PM
Sometimes it is good to write things down, otherwise you forget and it does help to look back and see how far you have come.

Don't be disheartened if you seem to stand still or even go backwards. It does happen like that and he'll come round again.

rune
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Krusewalker
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29-08-2010, 10:26 PM
capel manor

i know it, 20 minute drive

and if you are at the RVC at hawkshead, you are on my doorstep!

id advise all the procedures rune did

really dont think about dominance and rank based procedures.

the dominance theory doesnt reslly exist in science and dominance isnt an emotion.

sounds like you will get there.
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Vicki_Ann
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29-08-2010, 10:42 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Sometimes it is good to write things down, otherwise you forget and it does help to look back and see how far you have come.

Don't be disheartened if you seem to stand still or even go backwards. It does happen like that and he'll come round again.

rune
It does help a lot, I already feel more positive and so does my OH. I think I will have to keep returning to this thread and making sure we stay positive and keep doing the right things.

Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
capel manor

i know it, 20 minute drive

and if you are at the RVC at hawkshead, you are on my doorstep!

id advise all the procedures rune did

really dont think about dominance and rank based procedures.

the dominance theory doesnt reslly exist in science and dominance isnt an emotion.

sounds like you will get there.
I understand what you are saying about dominance, it is a created phenomenon. I will simply try to focus on state of mind and behaviour related to that and hopefully we will continue making progress

How small the world is lol! I'm at Hawkshead this year and only live down the road in Barnet!

We're still discovering all the good dog walks round here but it's a very dog friendly place
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Wysiwyg
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30-08-2010, 07:31 AM
I agree with all the advice re dominance, etc. There is too much on tv about it, with so called "experts", but the truth is that in science, it has been debunked, and in practical dog training and behaviour, it is simply not needed and can cause huge problems

These are good links and may be of some help:

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php plus the other links on there

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die (written by an ex police dog instructor/behaviourist).

Krusewalker might be a good person for hands on help, you can trust him for good, sound advice
Also, (I am rubbish at geography!) but I have a friend in South London who has her own Pyrenean, she uses reward based training and if you are stuck, may be of help, also.She is a trainer/behaviourist.

Best of luck and hey! well done for taking him on, poor lad. He deserves a good home now

Wys
x
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ClaireandDaisy
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30-08-2010, 07:51 AM
I am saddened that people studying animal sciences aren`t aware of mainstream (I can`t call it modern because it`s been around too long) thinking on canine behaviour.
Pinning, submission, noise, domination - all these are aggressive acts. So they will not help in dealing with an aggressive animal. How could they.
Please will you read up on good dog training. The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson is a good introduction.
There is an Antisocial Dog Class at Grays and another at Brentwood. I know the trainers and have no hesitation in recommending them. They use good methods.
http://www.dtce.co.uk/
http://www.trainyourdog.co.uk/
In the meantime - do not make your dog`s fear worse. Put the rattle in the bin. Do not force your dog to confront his fears. You are forcing him to fight if you do.
Slowly and safely with a fearful dog.
This site might help you-
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/shy-k9s/
(pm me if the software takes it out).
Your dogs` problem is a common one. It does not take heroic methods to address - just patience and kindness.
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wilbar
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30-08-2010, 08:55 AM
Just to add my twopenneth ~ well done for taking on Bear . It sounds like you'll be able to give him a happy home after his poor start in life.

There are some very wise dog people on this forum who try to keep up with the latest scientific research on canine behaviour & I would recommend the articles & books that have been mentioned here. I'm glad to hear that you're not going down the dominance, leader of the pack etc route anymore. It will create more problems than it solves & will make for a very confused & unhappy dog. Apart from that it's pseudo-scientific gobbledy -gook!

It sounds like Bear responds really well to positive reinforcement & that you're making great progress with him. I expect that you'll see even more improvements, especially in his interactions with other dogs, when he's castrated & the hormones have settled down.

I look forward to hearing more Bear stories in future.
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Vicki_Ann
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30-08-2010, 10:26 AM
Originally Posted by Wysiwyg View Post
These are good links and may be of some help:

http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php plus the other links on there

http://www.apbc.org.uk/articles/why-wont-dominance-die (written by an ex police dog instructor/behaviourist).

Krusewalker might be a good person for hands on help, you can trust him for good, sound advice
Also, (I am rubbish at geography!) but I have a friend in South London who has her own Pyrenean, she uses reward based training and if you are stuck, may be of help, also.She is a trainer/behaviourist.

Best of luck and hey! well done for taking him on, poor lad. He deserves a good home now

Wys
x
Thank you for the links. I have read them through and it all makes a lot of sense. I have to admit, it's a nightmare actually finding good resources on training - there are so many people with completely differing opinions!

Originally Posted by ClaireandDaisy View Post
I am saddened that people studying animal sciences aren`t aware of mainstream (I can`t call it modern because it`s been around too long) thinking on canine behaviour.
Pinning, submission, noise, domination - all these are aggressive acts. So they will not help in dealing with an aggressive animal. How could they.
Please will you read up on good dog training. The Culture Clash by Jean Donaldson is a good introduction.
There is an Antisocial Dog Class at Grays and another at Brentwood. I know the trainers and have no hesitation in recommending them. They use good methods.
http://www.dtce.co.uk/
http://www.trainyourdog.co.uk/
In the meantime - do not make your dog`s fear worse. Put the rattle in the bin. Do not force your dog to confront his fears. You are forcing him to fight if you do.
Slowly and safely with a fearful dog.
This site might help you-
http://[System Edit: Link not allowed]/group/shy-k9s/
(pm me if the software takes it out).
Your dogs` problem is a common one. It does not take heroic methods to address - just patience and kindness.
Unfortunately, we are not really taught about behaviour. I guess it just wouldn't fit in time-wise as we already have so much to learn.

As previously stated, I have got books and read up online about dog training, but as before mentioned, it's a complete minefield out there. I have been given advice from so many different people and it's all conflicting. I need to do what works for Bear and makes sense, and this I'm still honing down to what is needed.

I'm not really clear on how you came to the conclusion that Bear is shy or fearful?
He is certainly stubborn, but that soon dissipates when the treats come out, so I wouldn't class his problems as fear-based.

I will PM you for that link though as it's not working.


Originally Posted by wilbar View Post
Just to add my twopenneth ~ well done for taking on Bear . It sounds like you'll be able to give him a happy home after his poor start in life.

There are some very wise dog people on this forum who try to keep up with the latest scientific research on canine behaviour & I would recommend the articles & books that have been mentioned here. I'm glad to hear that you're not going down the dominance, leader of the pack etc route anymore. It will create more problems than it solves & will make for a very confused & unhappy dog. Apart from that it's pseudo-scientific gobbledy -gook!

It sounds like Bear responds really well to positive reinforcement & that you're making great progress with him. I expect that you'll see even more improvements, especially in his interactions with other dogs, when he's castrated & the hormones have settled down.

I look forward to hearing more Bear stories in future.
Thanks for the positive post. I think it will take a lot of time, but Bear will soon relax into being a member of the family.
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Rookgeordiegirl
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30-08-2010, 10:39 AM
I have met "Krusewalker" and a nicer person you couldn't wish to meet, if he is offering you help then I would take it
Good Luck with your PMD
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rune
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Location: cornwall uk
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30-08-2010, 11:32 AM
Just thought, might be a good idea to plan castration carefully and chat it through with various people before you do it.

It can make dogs much more insecure and might mean he becomes more aggressive to other dogs----just a thought.

rune
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