Training "Stay" (Split from Stroppy Teenager)

I suppose I do training with her everyday then, I just never thought of it as training. She always has to sit, or down or paw, for her food. If she jumps up on the sofa uninvited, she gets a firm off. Most times she waits until i say "up". I make her wait before I stroke her when I first come in from work. When we are playing and I want her to leave something she gets told "thank you" (its the command I use for leave), and she does, she'll jump up and try and get something from the worktop, and she gets told "off" (the command I use for get down). So in that sense I am continuing her training, is that right?

I've just started parcticing "come", trying not to use that word to much though. She'll come from room to room, but over the hols, I took her to the beach, and when it was deserted, i let her off the lead, and we practiced "come", she made me so proud, she came everytime. Just need to keep practicing that one.

The reason im going to the class, is because i feel she hasnt had enough dog socialisiation, and i want her to have more. And i really need help with stay, i cant get her to do it.

any suggestions?

Hi shadow

For stay, put lots of tiny biscuits in your hand and get her to sit. give her a biscuit every 10 sec but if she gets up tell her sit again... you can gradually get her to do it for longer, and start taking tiny steps away from her. The final step is to turn your back to her. If she stays then, well done, you've done it

The way we did it with Archie was, we used to hide one of his toys under the sofa as a game. So we would tell him to sit and stay, and go hide the toy. If he got up, we would put him back in a sit stay and he wasn't allowed to get the toy until we said 'ok'. He learned really fast cos he REALLY wanted that toy!

..some of the tiny breakfast cereals are good for this saves giving too many biscuits

Archie loves rice krispies

My Kali went through a stage like this when he was about 1 (I remember having to haul him out from under the car one day, when we wanted to go home from the beach and he didn't!), but he grew out of it eventually. It's difficult to remember how long the phase lasted, as he has always been a toerag, with a mind of his own! Now that he's nearly 12, I'm waiting for the "Grumpy Old Man" stage, but he hasn't shown any sign of that, so far. He seems far more interested in taking it easy. Border Collies are not usually noted for taking things easy!

As for "reinforcement training", I limit it nowadays to making sure that the command IS obeyed, whether the need for it has passed or not. The Border Boys may have agreed to swap status between themselves, but I am NOT going to let them include me in the reshuffle!

Snorri

i really like the idea of hiding her fav toy under the sofa. So far ive put her in the sit position, which she'll stay in for quite a long time, then i try to take a step backward from her, as soon as i do that she goes mental, gets up and starts barking (loudly) and backs away from me.

Just put her back in the sit gently and make sure she doesn't get the biscuit if she doesn't stay If all else fails, get someone to hold her, although it's better if she does it on her own

Hi

See you are training but without thinking about it - most people think of training a set period of time but you do it daily
With regard to the stay try this "Staffie trick " Staffs are people/owner besotted she will hate you trying to leave her.

But you are half way there you say she sits for a long time great , how about instead of walking away.
Getting her to sit almost at your side but you are half a step, or a step behind her get her to sit and wait/stay whatever you are using as a command then step up to her so you are then level with her you
aren't moving away - and nothing "horrible all in her head" happened when she stayed if anything something nice happened you came closer praise her but don't go OTT Staffs are loopy enough
Then progress to her sitting by your side and you taking 1/2 a step forward so you are still well in sight and nothing terrible happened I think with Staffs its when you look at them and back up they panic and they think you are leaving them for good
Then when she has stayed for a split second you have to be quick reward her. Try that and soon you will be stepping 4-5 steps away from her and thats enough for your average Staffie. And a good basis to work from

And when you say you are going to taining classes through lack of doggy socialization - why do you think she needs more doggy interaction? Staffs are rarely dogs who like other dogs as long as she is not scared by them,
worried about them or worry them then she should be fine, you have to understand Staffs aren't always dog friendly dogs.They are happy with you and the family. But if you do want to go then visit the class first and see if it is suitable for Staffs.

Karen

Don't know if this will help but this is the way I teach 'stay' for beginners in obedience, and it is similar to Kazz's suggestions.

Stand with the dog sitting on your left in heel position. Get the dog to watch you & give the 'stay' command plus a hand signal. Do not attempt to step away at this stage, just move your right foot/leg slightly. Reward the dog if it does not move. Repeat, each time moving your right foot/leg further in front and to the side away from the dog. Reward each time the dog does not move. Next, move your right foot/leg as though you are going to step away (Left foot stays planted next to the dog). Move your right foot back into position & reward. This teaches the dog that when your right foot moves it is not a signal for the dog to move with you.

When your dog is staying reliably as you move your right foot/leg the next thing is to pivot in front of your dog. That is, you pivot on your left foot, bring your right leg round in front of the dog, pivot back & reward. Next, pivot on your left foot, right leg round in front of the dog, left leg joins right leg and you are standing in front of your dog, pivot back and reward. You have taken a step and your dog has stayed

When practising always give the command plus signal, always reward if the dog does not move. Do not try to build up time and distance too quickly. If your dog breaks a stay it is because you have moved too far away or have left the dog for too long. Always build time before distance. Always step away on the leg that is not next to the dog.

Once your dog has learned, through repetition of this simple exercise, that 'stay' means 'do not move under any circumstances' and that he will be rewarded for complying, you can start to walk away with you back to the dog - secure in the knowledge that he won't move

Thanks for all the tips on stay, I'm going to try some of them later.

The reason that I want to take shadow to a dog class is not because I think shes unsocialised, she's great with dogs. Its just she doesn’t get to meet other dogs very often, and when she does she get overly excited, jumping all over the place. I was hoping that by taking her to a class, the novely of other dogs would wear off, plus id get to brush up on her training. The class starts tonight and its £25 for 9 weeks, which I think is quite reasonable.

Other staff owners, do you think im wose taking her to this class? I've heard nothing but good things about the class, and Im a bit stuck on a few training things, as I said earlier "stay" is one, plus "heel", and recall also. Shaodw isnt great on the lead, she pulls a lot, and I was hoping this class would help me too. It’s the Kennel Club Good Dog Citizen scheme, the bronze award, the training is as follows:

Description of Exercises

1. CLEANLINESS AND IDENTIFICATION
Each handler must carry with them some form of “poop scoop” and all dogs must wear a collar and identification tag. The owner should be reminded that they must always remove any fouling caused by their dog and carry with them some form of "poop scoop". Note: These essentials are part of the law.

2. COLLAR AND LEAD
Put on collar and lead. It is important that the collar and lead are suitable for type of dog and that the owner is able to fit them correctly. Note: A dog that becomes frightened can back out of a loose collar.

3. WALK ON LEAD
Walk on lead without distractions. The owner will be holding the lead with the dog by their side throughout this section. The dog should walk at the handler’s side without undue pulling forward or back. Note: Competition heelwork is not the aim.

4. CONTROL AT DOOR/GATE
Walk on lead through Door/Gate. The owner will hold the lead and with the dog under control walk the dog through gate/doorway. Note: The objectives of exercise three also apply. The dog should not pull or be pulled through the doorway.

5. CONTROLLED WALK AMONGST PEOPLE AND DOGS
Walk on lead passing people and dogs. Behave in controlled manner whilst owner holds a conversation for one minute. The dog must be able to stand, sit or lie down in a quiet relaxed manner whilst the owner is holding a conversation for one minute. Note: The objectives of exercise three also apply. This is not a stay exercise.

6. STAY ON LEAD FOR ONE MINUTE
Stay in one position on command, on lead. The handler should place the dog with the lead attached in a position of their choice i.e. stand, sit or down. Upon instruction, having quietly dropped the lead on the ground next to the dog, the handler will move a distance of five paces away for a period of one minute. Note: The dog must stay in the position it has been left in, however minor movements within that position are acceptable. Extra commands are permitted but should not be excessive.

7. GROOM
Grooming should be performed relevant to the individual dog. Note: This exercise is a test of ability to keep the dog clean and healthy without a struggle. Handlers are required to provide their own grooming equipment. Any signs of aggression or nervousness while grooming the dog will be deemed not ready.

8. PRESENT FOR EXAMINATION
The examiner will be shown how a handler can examine their own dog. This exercise will be carried out on lead. The dog will be required to have its mouth, teeth, throat, eyes, ears and feet inspected when standing, sitting or lying down on either side or on its back. Note: This is a most important exercise and will require considerable care, expertise and patience on the part of the trainer. The average new owner may find this exercise difficult and frustrating. However, by ensuring that dogs are properly socialised before attempting this exercise and that this exercise is only carried out under careful supervision will success be achieved.

9. RETURN TO HANDLER
The handler will release the dog from lead, play with or without toy, or in some other way distance themselves from their dog, recall and attach lead. The aim is to enable the handler to call the dog to them when released within a restricted area, i.e. home or garden. There will be no requirement for the dog to sit, the handler will simply attach the lead to the collar. Note: The handler is to be advised not to let the dog run uncontrolled in open spaces such as woods, parks and farmland.

10. RESPONSIBILITY AND CARE
The object of this exercise is to test the knowledge of the handler on specific subjects relating to owning a dog. When asked questions by the examiner from the Responsibility and Care numbered list section one only. Topics include – A dog’s needs, Illness and Responsibilities of Ownership. The questions should not be phrased in an ambiguous manner and where necessary, examiners should rephrase the same question in an attempt to bring out the correct answer from the handler. At the start of each training course, in addition to the description, handlers should be given a copy of the canine code and Responsibility & Care sheet. There should be a discussion period during which the importance of correct socialisation can be explained, problems discussed and advice given on choosing a suitable collar, identity disc and lead. Note: Only one numbered item may constitute a question. The handler should be able to give three out of six correct answers from Section One of the Responsibility and Care Information Sheet.

Has any one done this award?