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welshmann
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23-07-2010, 09:40 AM
Has anyone been adversely affected by the Welsh Assembly Ban on Electronic Dog Collars?
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Adam P
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23-07-2010, 10:16 AM
I'm in the southwest so no I haven't been.
However I have heard that sales of e collars to wales are only down by 60% (its still legal to own one) so potentially a surprising number of people still useing them.
I have quite a few clients who have said they wouldn't have been able to keep their dog without using an e collar, the impression I get is if the ban was extended across the uk alot of current users would continue to use them. It may put some new comers off of course.
The worst of it would be that more dogs would be rehomed (rehomeing centres already full) and pts due to issues.
A personal correspondance form a dealer suggests that countrywide alot of trainers use them alongside other techniques and because of our changing lifestyles they are becoming more and more useful. The dealer said that he reckons 100s of dogs would go if e collars were banned.

Have you been affected?

Adam

Btw if you for e collars your in for a tricky ride on this forum.
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Tassle
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23-07-2010, 10:55 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I'm in the southwest so no I haven't been.
However I have heard that sales of e collars to wales are only down by 60% (its still legal to own one) so potentially a surprising number of people still useing them.
I have quite a few clients who have said they wouldn't have been able to keep their dog without using an e collar, the impression I get is if the ban was extended across the uk alot of current users would continue to use them. It may put some new comers off of course.
The worst of it would be that more dogs would be rehomed (rehomeing centres already full) and pts due to issues.
A personal correspondance form a dealer suggests that countrywide alot of trainers use them alongside other techniques and because of our changing lifestyles they are becoming more and more useful. The dealer said that he reckons 100s of dogs would go if e collars were banned.

Have you been affected?

Adam

Btw if you for e collars your in for a tricky ride on this forum.


Sorry - that statement did make me chuckle....

I am sure an dealer in any item that was threatened with a ban would say the same, scare mongering is great for sales!
And as to becoming more popular - we live in a quick fix throw away society....I don't doubt they are becoming more popular
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alexandra
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23-07-2010, 11:00 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Btw if you for e collars your in for a tricky ride on this forum.
That generally because we favour kind methods of training rather than barbaric unneccesary ways of inflicting suffering on a poor animal to get it to do what you want!

How about if i was to train you to use a certain item but shocked you in the balls everytime you got something wrong...oh but i wont try and tell you the correct way first and reward you for getting it right.....!
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Jackie
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23-07-2010, 11:03 AM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
I'm in the southwest so no I haven't been.
However I have heard that sales of e collars to wales are only down by 60% (its still legal to own one) so potentially a surprising number of people still useing them.
I have quite a few clients who have said they wouldn't have been able to keep their dog without using an e collar, the impression I get is if the ban was extended across the uk alot of current users would continue to use them. It may put some new comers off of course.The worst of it would be that more dogs would be rehomed (rehomeing centres already full) and pts due to issues.
A personal correspondance form a dealer suggests that countrywide alot of trainers use them alongside other techniques and because of our changing lifestyles they are becoming more and more useful. The dealer said that he reckons 100s of dogs would go if e collars were banned.

Have you been affected?

Adam

Btw if you for e collars your in for a tricky ride on this forum.
Ever the resilient Adam, never misses a chance to promote himself

Hers a thought, maybe those who are still buying and own the e.collar, but can no longer use them on their or other peoples dogs, have found a better use for them???

Masochism, comes to mind lots of little men with big egos , strapping them to themselves or others of the same mind, to gain the gratification from the pain, they can no longer inflict on the poor defenceless dog!!
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Maureen19
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23-07-2010, 12:07 PM
Hi, This is a subject that always sparks anger I am afraid.

I think people who just discount these collars and say how Cruel they are should look at the whole picture more.

I was of this opinion myself when I was ignorant of facts.

I both think they should be banned and not be banned...

Banned from Thugs and animals torturers but allowed for caring owners who with sensible educated guidance realise how to use these.

In most instances these need only be used on one occasion for a dog to stop a problem which could lead to it being put to sleep unless stopped.

One person nearby myself, as we live rurally, had 2 GSD's and one of them alway tried to get into sheep and on one occasion pinned one to the ground. He was told that the only way to stop this was a shock collar.

He realised the gravity of the situation when the Farmer said he would shoot his dog on sight next time he saw it near his fence threatening to get over. My neighbour got a collar used it only once ( in a field of sheep) with a trainer taking control and to this day (although his dog wears the collar to go out) HE HAS NEVER HAD TO ZAP IT AGAIN.....

He loves his dogs and a short sharp shock was enough to save its life and also the sheep it comes into contact with.

So every case has to be taken independantly.

At the end of the day I think these collares should be available but only via a very very good behaviourists recommendation and monitoring.

Just my own viwew
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Meg
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23-07-2010, 12:25 PM
Originally Posted by e collar salesman
Has anyone been adversely affected by the Welsh Assembly Ban on Electronic Dog Collars?


Yes I have, it has resulted in people starting threads to discuss the ban and this brings e collar salesmen out of the woodwork one of them a well known troublemaker who uses many names and likes to put e collars on dogs right next to their genitals
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ClaireandDaisy
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23-07-2010, 12:39 PM
quote from PDSA
PDSA wholeheartedly supports the move by the Welsh Assembly to ban the use of controversial electric shock dog collars.

The leading vet charity would like to see the use of any electronic training aids outlawed, as they rely on pain and distress to get results. The potential for misuse is very high and there are plenty of alternative training methods that are both humane and effective.

PDSA Senior Vet, Sean Wensley, says: “Dogs should never be trained using punishment. Owners should only use positive training methods, where good behaviour is rewarded, instead of punishing bad behaviour.

“Punishment causes anxiety, pain and fear – emotions which have been proven to significantly slow down the learning process. In addition, dogs that are punished learn that people can’t be trusted which can lead to a whole range of behavioural problems.”


Quote from Kennel Club
he Kennel Club has long been campaigning for electric shock training devices to be completely banned across the UK. Electric shock training devices train a dog to respond out of fear of further punishment, having received an electric shock when it does not perform what is asked of it, rather than from a natural willingness to obey. In order for the devices to serve effectively as a training tool, the dog has to perceive the shock as painful - moreover if the dog does not respond, the punishment has to escalate, creating further potential for abuse.

The Kennel Club has welcomed a recent consultation issued by the Scottish Government seeking views on whether to ban electric shock training aids including collars, leads and mats. For further details on how to get involved in the campaign please see the following sections below.

Scotland

The Scottish Government issued a consultation seeking views on the use, sale, distribution and possession of electric shock collars and other such training devices including electric mats and electric leads in Scotland. The consultation closed on 30 November 2007 and the results of this consultation have yet to be published.
In the meantime, the Kennel Club is urging all those who support the campaign and wish to see a ban in Scotland to write to your MSP and ask them to write to the responsible Minister, Richard Lochhead MSP, outlining their support for such a ban. Your MSP can also sign Motion S3M-428 Electric Training Devices. You can find out who your MSP is by visiting http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/ms...msplocator.htm

A standard form of words can be found by clicking the link below:

Suggested form of words to a MSP

Wales

After four years of campaigning, the Kennel Club is delighted to announce that the Welsh Assembly has now banned the use of electric shock collars across Wales.

The Animal Welfare (Electronic Collars) (Wales) Regulations 2010 came into force on Wednesday 24th March 2010. The National Assembly for Wales unanimously voted in favour of the regulations making the ban the first of its kind in the UK, and the first piece of secondary regulation to be introduced in Wales under the Animal Welfare Act. For a full press release on the issue click here.

The ban follows an announcement on 24th February 2010 by the Rural Affairs Minister, Elin Jones, in which she laid the legislation before the Assembly, who considered and agreed the legislation before the ban was implemented. See our press release on the issue here.

Said Elin Jones "After giving due consideration to the arguments, I propose to introduce a ban on the use of electric shock collars in Wales.” She further commented that Wales was “leading the way” with this ban now in place. Elin went on to explain that the ban would stand on any product that induces a shock from which a dog cannot escape.

A YouGov survey about Electric Shock Collars, commissioned by the Kennel Club in 2009, that 70% disapproved of the use of electric shock collars on dogs, with only 9% of people approving of their use.

This is the first ban of its kind in the UK with Ministers praising the Kennel Club for their relentless pursuit of this subject. Speaking after the announcement Trish Law (AM for Blaenau Gwent) commented “I must just pay tribute to those individuals and groups who have successfully lobbied for a ban, in particular the Kennel Club which has diligently and tirelessly relayed with clarity to AMs its inarguable case for a ban.”

However, after a milestone victory for dogs in Wales, the Kennel Club is disappointed to learn of the intention of the Electronic Collar Manufacturers Association to seek a Judicial Review on the Welsh Assembly Government’s decision to ban shock collars. Click here for more details.

Westminster

Although there has been no consultation issued by DEFRA the Kennel Club remains committed to keeping the issue high on the political agenda.

David Drew MP has tabled an Early Day Motion on the issue and the Kennel Club is encouraging people to write to their MP asking them to sign EDM 288 to show their support for the issue.

You can find out who your MP is by visiting www.upmystreet.com/commons/l/

You can also talk to your MP at his or her surgery and you may find our Surgery Guide useful:

PDF IconMP's Surgery Pack

This link also allows you to write to your MP and encourages them to respond: http://www.writetothem.com/

You can find the electric shock collar campaign time line by clicking the link below:

Electric Shock Collar Campaign timeline

YouTube clip of man with electric shock collar

In this video clip (about half way through) you will see a man put a shock collar on himself to see if it hurts. This clip does not feature any electric shock training devices being used on animals. The person in the video has lent his support to the campaign after learning what the device does and has said he would never use one on his dog.
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wilbar
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23-07-2010, 12:39 PM
Originally Posted by Maureen19 View Post
Hi, This is a subject that always sparks anger I am afraid.

I think people who just discount these collars and say how Cruel they are should look at the whole picture more.

I was of this opinion myself when I was ignorant of facts.

I both think they should be banned and not be banned...

Banned from Thugs and animals torturers but allowed for caring owners who with sensible educated guidance realise how to use these.

In most instances these need only be used on one occasion for a dog to stop a problem which could lead to it being put to sleep unless stopped.

One person nearby myself, as we live rurally, had 2 GSD's and one of them alway tried to get into sheep and on one occasion pinned one to the ground. He was told that the only way to stop this was a shock collar.

He realised the gravity of the situation when the Farmer said he would shoot his dog on sight next time he saw it near his fence threatening to get over. My neighbour got a collar used it only once ( in a field of sheep) with a trainer taking control and to this day (although his dog wears the collar to go out) HE HAS NEVER HAD TO ZAP IT AGAIN.....

He loves his dogs and a short sharp shock was enough to save its life and also the sheep it comes into contact with.

So every case has to be taken independantly.

At the end of the day I think these collares should be available but only via a very very good behaviourists recommendation and monitoring.
Just my own viwew
I won't comment on the rest of your post as my views are very different & the use of ecollars has been discussed at length here. However I would say that if "very very good behaviourists" were the only people licensed in some way to use them, then ecollar manufacturers would go bust very quickly!! No very very good behaviourist is likely to feel the need to resort to electric shocks to modify problem behaviours. The people that buy & use them are those that can't be bothered to train using kind positive methods & just want a quick fix regardless of the damage that it may do to a dog.
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ClaireandDaisy
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23-07-2010, 12:50 PM
Wow what a lot of new members.
And only posting on Electric Shock Collars.
Good heavens...
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