On the subject of veg and prey model

I have been reading Raw & Natural Nutrition for dogs by Lew Olson.

It was there I found that dogs can not digest vegetables,
it was also in this book that I read veg can make dog poo larger and smellier. But in the same book their are recomendations for feeding certain veg. I sense a number of conflicting views and opinions on the matter of feeding veg.

I prefer to give left over veg as treats more then anything as I found cooking veg destroys most of the good nutrients which is certainly true if you boil. I do know that if you give dogs veg it should be blitzed in blender or even steamed? Rather then boiled. But I wonder why people bother as a dog unless given by a person would surely not naturally eat veg? Were do you find veg in the wild? Or rice for that matter? So how is it a natural part of feeding?

For me feeding veg just seems like an extra cost and I don't specificly make veg for my dog unless their are left overs that would just go to waiste. I don't believe dogs "need" veg in their diet but thats just me.

But how can a prey model diet and feature veg in it? A wolf would certainly not nibble a carrot and all though dogs are distant cousins of the wolf I would have said a dogs diet would be closer to what a dingo or hyena scavenges on. So on one hand would a diet featuring more bones to gnaw on be considered more prey model?

There would be vegetable matter partly digested in the stomach of their prey. There seems to be two arguments - some say that the wolf will eat their fill of the stomach contents, others say that they shake the contents out to eat the stomach itself, hence tripe being a substitute for vegetables.
There's also scavenging of fruit and veg, I know some people have said their dogs will pick berries off of bushes, eat fallen apples, etc. and these would occur in the wild. Also other plant vegetation - many owners experience their dog eating grass, but a wolf may seek out other plants too.

pippam, you say you prefer to give left over vegetables as treats, but how have you cooked them? If you boil/steam vegetables with salt for yourself then you are giving the dog salt which is does not need. If they are left-over roast vegetables then they quite possibly have fat and salt which it does not need.

You also say:

but if you, as I do, cook vegetables which both myself and my dog eat, how can that cost extra? I buy vegetables, blanch by steaming, then freeze. With no seasoning.

What I want for myself I will then take out, as you would do with a pack of bought frozen vegetables, and add to whatever I am eating, seasoning as required.

For Pereg I will take out the plain frozen vegetables and just defrost to add to her meals.

So that is no extra cost, no extra preparation, no waste.

Vegetables suit some dogs - they do not suit all. Vegetables might cause some dogs to produce larger and smellier poos, but not all. I choose to give Pereg vegetables and they suit her. She also likes them.

But as you well know, no two dogs are alike, and no foodstuffs suit all dogs.

No salt I don't like it on anything but chips and crisps! The only veg we cook with the meat are the potatoes and she doesn't get them. We steam our other veg so a bit difficult to put in salt any way ^^

Again another conflicting view/opinion my book says fat is good for dogs!

I started off by giving my dogs veg. I would belnd it all up as recommended but they hated the stuff and wouldnt touch it so I stopped feeding it.

Now I feed cooked veg which is the only way they like them, and I give the veg water as a drink once it has cooled down. I feed a veg meal once a week. Yes, it does cause them to have larger, smellier poos but the way I see it is a few cooked veg cannot do any harm even if it doesnt do them any good. And I'd rather err on the side of caution and give them a few veg here and there rather than risk their diet lacking in something.

I don't feed veg.

If they cannot digest it themselves (blending/cooking it is not by themselves - we are giving them a helping hand) then I do not believe it is needed.

I am unsure on the whole wolves eating the stomach contents of their prey, but I feed green tripe once a week, and Jake loves the stuff, so that covers that issue.

My min pin loves veg and fruit (obviously in small quantities as she is a tiny dog).

Not sure about what they'd eat 'in the wild' they've been domesticated for so many years.

Humans used to eat different stuff 'in the wild' to what they eat now.

Lew Olson on vegetables

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/vegetables/

Dogs scavenge and they consume vegetables that they find above ground in particular. They also consume herbs and grasses.

Wild canids consume various parts of the intestines and stomach, some more than others.

I am not sure where you get your certainty that a wolf would not nibble a carrot?

Have you watched any wildlife programmes which feature wolves consuming fruits and vegetables?

I do not get hung up on prey model or any other type of model. Wild canids (and domestic dogs) are opportunistic feeders and will consume most things.

Could you elaborate on where and in what way there is a conflict about fat?

Fat is where dogs get their energy from, (rather than carbohydrates).


http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter...-fats-in-diet/

This is pretty much my view on the whole thing

I don't put a lot of thought into the precise and exact nutritional basis of my diet on a daily/weekly/monthly basis, so I'm certainly not going to worry about the dogs, who given the choice, would be scavenging god knows what!