I do not know about those photos from before. But I have seen the same behavior in wolves in Yellowstone, Wyoming. Here I have found this picture which is definitely from wild. Do you believe that this behavior is displayed only by wolfs in captivity?. Believe me that is not the case. :


Here read this:
http://courses.moodleshare.com/mod/r...ew.php?id=7387


http://stopwolfhunting.webs.com/wolf101.htm
Prager Hans

So let me make this clear.
1. Some of You guys are saying all positive is good and all negative is bad.
2. The wolves do not dominate others within the pack. They are just mom and dad and their little children and they live in harmony without rules of pack's hierarchy.))
3. Old trainers like Most and Koehler trained with negative only approach.
4. All violence is bad.
5. Dog responds to you only because he/she loves you.
6.If you apply properly positive x Negative reinforcement that is harsh and thus you are cruel mean person.
7. If you apply any kind of negative on a dog that he will learn that and becomes aggressive. On the other hand if you apply just positive then he will always be little angel.
8. And yes you dog is perfect and will never disobey and you are perfect and will never drop the leash by mistake since you know that it is against the law.
9. Proper training applies 100% positive and no negative is ever needed.

Does that sums it up?
Prage Hans

Rescource-guarding happens even in domestic dogs. And the last photo you posted could have been of play-fighting wolves.

Any studies done of captive wolves have to be suspect, since they are of a dysfunctional family. It would be like taking you, me, a couple of people off the street, possibly a few random orphaned children and a couple of elderly folk, putting us in a cage, and trying to extrapolate our interactions and relationships as typical of all human beings everywhere.

And what does it matter anyway?

The domestic dog didn't evolve from the type of wolves that can be studied nowadays. The original ancestors of our dogs existed around 30,000 years ago and we have modified their behaviour so much that they should be viewed as a different species altogether.

Start thinking Dog not Wolf and you'll be a lot closer both literally and figuratively. That's why modern zoologists, biologists, ethologists and anthrozoologists have started doing more research into dogs as a separate species.

OK so you say you get the pup to roll over with play
But how? you physically rolling the pup over or the pup choosing to roll themselves over during play?

If you physicaly hands on turn the pup over to you believe that the act of the pups tummy being exposed to you actually MAKES the puppy respect you

If not by you physically turning the pup over what do you do if the pup dosent choose to show their tummy?

What would you do with an older rescue dog?

Here is a good one:
http://www.wolf.org/wolves/learn/bas...munication.asp


Prager Hans

OK.... well the reference given at the foot of that article is to a book written in the 1970's by David Mech. Out of date doesn't even cover it. Obsolete isn't far enough really. Dysfunctional family fits nicely.

African wild dogs. Yep. Nice.

It does help to know that:
a) All wolf research done prior to the last 15 or so years is redundant, obsolete, archaic, refuted, not applicable....
and
b) The dog is a totally separate species of canid, changed by man over thousands of years, separated from its now extinct ancestor and thus cannot be compared to any other extant canid species?

Get over the wolves already!!!!!!

I assume that you are honest with your question.

As far as the pup goes i would see if he is social. And if he is he will display his stomach. If he is not I would live with the dog until he is comfortable with you and then i would go on the floor with him ( on his level 0 and let him let me in game to roll him. But I have said in former posts here I do not advice to apply this method because there is too many variables. If you would be here with me then i can show you but this is not what you should do if the pup does not do it for you naturally ,that is unless you know what you are doing and then you would not ask this question. For your safety, you should not do this with old rescue dog. This dog has had probably (or just maybe) bad experience from someone who abused him.
In that case you just live with him for a while. I mean for a months or 4 . Have a fun with the dog. There are other ways to give dog a guidance. This thread went so much about alpha roll, which is legit method, but only few can do it properly> Thus there are other methods. I would need to know more about your dog in order to advice you.
I just have hard time to advice to someone on this forum since it would go on the tangent of me defending to advice rather then help you.
You can probably figure out who I am and you can contact me with e mail and I would be glad to help you.
Hans

Dog and wolf are both same species. You do not even know that. Canis lupus. Same species same behavioral patterns except dog is less shy.
Are you guys serious?! Do I have to defend here that the earth is not flat?
FYI someone asked me about the wolves. That is why I have brought it up. Get a grip. Just because you believe something does not mean it is the truth. Prove to me your points if you think that you can do it otherwise go away.
Prager Hans

It is possible to train by only choosing to apply positive reward
it means you have to think about things from a dogs perspective tho
I am learning all the time but as a challange to myself I am trying to train 100% positive reward
it is possible to use negative punishment kindly as well and I am in no way against that

for a second i believed that you are asking legit question. What a fool i am.

So you say:
Originally Posted by MerlinsMum View Post
OK.... well the reference given at the foot of that article is to a book written in the 1970's by David Mech. Out of date doesn't even cover it. Obsolete isn't far enough really. Dysfunctional family fits nicely.

So you are actually saying because the picture was taken in 1970 the behavior which I am documenting is obsolete??!!!!
So because Newton described gravity 300 or so years ago the gravity is obsolete?

Prager Hans