I take pride in my dogs - sure they're mutts and a quick groom or hand strip (for wire hair) is all it takes but I pride myself on how they look.

Isn't the whole idea of dog shows, that they go on a breed standard - in which standard does it say that a Poodle or a Shih Tzu had to have a top knot hair sprayed? And the point of dog shows is to show the best of breeding - I've never seen a dog born with hairspray or top knots or whatever else. So why do people insist on using them?

Would you also argue that in toddler beauty pageants; make up is not going too far because it doesn't cause any physical harm. Fair enough we may never get a poodle on a shrinks couch saying that it's internal psyche and emotional state was imbalanced because it had hair spray sprayed on it for a dog show when it was young..then again dogs are incredibly intelligent creatures and they could feel this way..who knows.

But why use chemicals on a dog or indeed a child for the reasoning of pride?

Fair enough a bit of medicated shampoo or some cream but hairspray? I just don't get why you would bath your dog then spray gunk on it, just to bath it again.. I wouldn't call it pride - but then again I don't get it, I've never shown dogs, I own mutts..etc

I'm not trying to be difficult - I love watching dog shows, but the amount of stuff people put on their dogs to get them "perfect" is stupid really.

Hand stripping and the like needs stopping to then, you cant just pick and choose whats acceptable and whats not, when in the bigger picture its all altering - like wise you cant just pick and choose what dogs are being tested from anyone show. If some in the class are being tested ALL should, and testing needs to be done in a way that doesnt hurt the dog!

Sal we all cheat then, simply just by bathing the dogs the night before the show!

SLB - I am not talking about children, I am not interested in them or their beauty shows in the slighest - not that I would even compare the two!

Hand stripping is altering the coat also, but because a produce hasnt been used this is fine is that not double standards, to me yes - its all or nothing.

Of course dogs are judged on the breed standard, grooming and preparing shows off the conformation, structure and the rest of the dogs assests.
Ermm of course dogs are not born with hair spray, hair spray is merely used to present the dog in the style handler wants, dogs are also not born trimmed, clipped, bathed in full coat .. ect..ect - such a silly comment to make..- You didnt answer my question.. (why is it taking it to far?.) Is it harming the dog..no - but you all find it acceptable to rip hair out!
Cream isnt acceptable either, been banned - apart from suncreams.

A silly argument in my opinion - I hand strip the parts of Benjie's face that a comb or a brush cannot get too without hurting him - I do it gently and minimal - I do this so he can see. I do it for the dogs benefit - not for a rosette or a place. He even takes the fur out himself by rubbing his nose and face against furniture...

I can't answer your question - hairspray is a ridiculous thing to put on your dog.. and I did say IMO it was going too far - my opinion doesn't need a reason.

The bit in bold, italics and underlined - why not, lets let dog shows go au naturale.

Hand stripping is still altering the coat, however nicely you do it - just the same as me clipping around a CCs face!

So you have an opinion, quite a strong one on something but have no reason for that? - I cant even debate the subject with someone that has no reason, let alone a vaild one for an opinion they hold.

If people want to see dogs go natural fine - but like you underlined..all or nothing, not one rule for one and another for others. Hand stripping is just as much altering coat, as trimming and clipping is.

As someone who has had their dog(well Champion Bitch)coat tested in the past-there is no KC official "ripping"the coat out, samples of coat are taken from the dog from where it doesn't show & clipped. It is done by the official vet. Even using a flea comb will not "rip" out coat

It is the norm now for Miniature Poodle exhibitors to drench their dogs in hair lacquer so that it hides the true texture of the coat. It is interesting that the originator of the petition is in Poodles. I've been benched near the poodle people & had to move away because of the toxic fumes from the hair spray. Using hairspray, colour changing shampoos, chalks etc etc etc has come over from the USA, a top breeder/exhibitor's Standard Poodle was tested & found to be dyed, however the owner/handler escaped punihment because the KC couldn't prove who had done it !! Despite the fact that the dog in question regularly produced "patched"puppies !!!

Sorry but if the rules state something shouldn't be used then it shouldn't be used QED

Ripping out was probs the wrong word to use, but still taking 30 odd strands of hair out of a non moulting breed is not the nicest thing..I have been around the Poodles, never had to move because of fumes..

My dog isn't a show dog though - I do it for his comfort, not for pride or a rosette. He's one that sheds too, so I'm really only just pulling out loose fur.

DD lets just agree to disagree, we'll be going in circles otherwise..

All of the products used to 'beautify' a dog are the lazy man's alternative to hard work and grooming!
A lot like (sorry ladies!) wearing a tummy girdle rather than going on a diet!
Use whatever you want on your dogs coat but WASH IT OUT before a show or risk being caught cheating because that is exactly what using 'enhancing' products is!
Stripping and clipping are not against the rules.

Them that show but also hand strip wont be doing so for a placing, they will be doing so for the same reason..

- we shall have to and I will stand alone on my opinion..no one will change my mind on this!