Sudden aggression towards cat HELP!

Moxie did something last night that shocked me to no end. She was laying down in the living room and Thurston, one of the cats, walked into the room from the kitchen. Moxie jumps up snarling and rushes across the room at him and grabs him by the neck-lots of growling and snarling. She stopped immediately when I yelled out of surprise, and slunk over to me tail down, ears back, lip licking, looking away from me, calming signals galore.

I've spoken with three vets today at length about this to see if there is any way one of her medications may have caused this unprovoked attack, they all agree its unlikely to be her meds. She's not ill and she's not in pain.

So what on earth would cause my sweet natured dog who has lived with these cats all her life and doesn't have an aggressive bone in her body to turn on Thurston like that?

I keep hoping it was a one off thing, like maybe she was asleep and having a bad dream, it was dim in the room, her eyesight isn't very good.

But then I fear I may have caused this. Thurston isn't my cat, he belongs to my brother who has been in and out of jail for the past four years. Thurston has lived with us that whole time with the understanding that my brother could take him back at any time. For this reason, I am not as close to Thurston as I am my other two. We just haven't really bonded. Also, Thurston is a trouble maker and a bully, always into things he shouldn't be and picking on Kobie my older cat. He gets yelled at - a lot- by both myself and my mother. I wonder if my lack of closeness and attitude towards Thurston has given Moxie the idea that he isn't part of the pack, or needs to be disciplined and has taken this upon herself. She has never really liked Thurston and I'm afraid its my fault.

She's always been the "fun police" interveneing when the cats start tusseling and running a muck. Never agressively, she just walks over to them and stands over them until they quit doing whatever they are doing. I've never discouraged this behavior. Maybe I should have?

Moxie has snapped at Thurston before when he is attacking her, swiping at her or latching onto her leg or tail. Well deserved telling off I thought and let it go.

Now she has out and out attacked him for no apparent reason. I'm afraid I've caused this. Sad Thurston was unhurt BTW and there have been no further incidents today.

What should I do?
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Gosh Moxie sounds so like mine - thinking they should enforce what they think you want!

I would hope that as she does seem like mine, once she realises that that is very much what you Don't want her to do, she will not try again.

Having said that, you would've thought she would've done this before, as Thurston has been living with you for years. It's more than possible that she was startled on waking up and didn't recognise him.

The only other thing that occured to me is whether there is something wrong with Thurston that you are not aware of yet. A behaviourist I know has told me that dogs will often pick up when another animal is ill and whilst some will go protective of the sick animal, many will get aggressive. It might be worth getting him checked over?

How old is Moxie? My friends Springer Spaniel did this to both of her cats when he became elderly. Up until that time he'd been living quite happily with them both. Sadly it wasn't a one off incident either it ended up with her having to keep the dog and cats separate.
I can't remember why he did this but will ask her for you when I see her later today.

Thanks for the replies. Good point Hali about Thurston. I will have him checked over ASAP. Its time for his annual exam anyway.

SJ Moxie is almost 11 years old. I hope this isn't a permanent thing.

have you just moved or had as sudden change in your routines?

Lily lives with 4 cats and she gets on brilliantly with all of them. Yesterday she went upstairs and was barking madly as though she was worried about something. When I went up one of my cats was on my daughters bed and it wasn't until I switched the light on that Lily realised it was one of hers. The room wasn't pitch black as the landing light was on.

It could well have been that Moxie didn't immediately recognise him and that she was startled. He sounds like he doesn't make himself popular with her also. But the fact he wasn't hurt says a lot. Cat's skin is so delicate, so she can't have been rough with him at all.

Hi muttzrule ~ I'm a feline behaviourist, so perhaps I can help from the cat perspective?

I agree with what the others have said inasmuch as it is possible that Moxie was startled from sleep, saw the cat's movement but without realising it was a familiar cat, & reacted spontaneously.

It could also be because the relationship between Moxie & Thurston is not a very good one & something in Thurston's body language/smell caused Moxie to react with aggression in this particular incident. Did Thurston startle Moxie by suddenly appearing with no warning? If Moxie's eyesight & hearing aren't as good as they were, & perhaps Moxie's sense of smell is also waning, then maybe Thurston just startled Moxie?

From Thurston's point of view, this will have been a very scary event & could well have damaged any relationship with Moxie, so you may have to watch them carefully for a while.

Thurston sounds like quite a confident & territorial cat in that he bullies & picks on the other cats. It also sounds like he sometimes uses Moxie as a bit of a punchbag? If I were you, I would stop this by prevention/distraction ~ but no punishment.

I suspect that your other cats aren't very keen on Thurston & are probably quite inhibited in their behaviour around Thurston. But it doesn't matter how much of a bully Thurston appears to be, shouting at a cat or punishing it in any way won't help things. Cats don't have to learn appeasing behaviours because cats don't have to live in social groups ~ they are quite capable of surving by living a solitary existence, unlike dogs that have evolved as a social group living species that depend on pack co-operation to survive. So if you try to punish a cat in any way, it will just learn to avoid you, or only do the unwanted behaviours when you're not around. So forget the shouting at Thurston, or Moxie, ~ it will only cause more stress for you, your family & your pets.

A far better way to improve the relationship between Moxie & Thurston is to try to build up positive associations between Thurston's presence & Moxie's presence. So, for instance, from Moxie's point of view, are there any particularly high value treats that you could give Moxie, but ONLY in Thurston's presence? Would Thurston take treats from you? If so , can you do the same for Thurston, only in Moxie's persence. The idea is to build up positive associations for them both, but in the presence of the other.

Cats communicate primarily by scent, so maybe you could try putting something that smells of Moxie in Thurston's favourite sleeping place so that he associates Moxie's smell with a calm & relaxing location? But remove it if Thurston stops sleeping there.

I would also strongly suggest that you try to prevent any aggressive incidents between the cats, especially when Moxie is around. Prevention is better than cure, so if you catch Thurston staring at one of the other cats, or about to pounce, can you distract Thurston? Or remove him (but gently & kindly, with some petting if that is what he likes ~ anything that makes Thurston purr?).

I would certainly discourage Moxie's role as "fun police" ~ this is not her job & may well cause her to feel uncomfortable. In any case, any practice of aggressive/territorial behaviours & the associated feelings will only mean that they are more likely to happen. So best bet is to prevent/distract this sort of behaviour.

I hope that you can improve the situation between Moxie & Thurston, & whilst I totally understand your reasons for not getting too close to Thurston, maybe you could find it in your heart, to feel a bit of sympathy for him & try & make him feel part of your family. Thurston's only doing his best to be a normal cat & doing the only things he knows how to do.

Hi although I am no feline behaviourist I have 6 cats that are all rescues and I think they can come with as many hang ups as rescue dogs! It can be very difficult to add an adult cat to an already established group of cats. I have done it twice and both times really hard work. The first time the added cat was aggressive and a bully and I deemed her the troublemaker. It's difficult to bond with a cat that upsets your already much loved cats. It got so bad that I took her to see a pet behaviourist who told me that she was an extremely fearful unsettled cat and I needed to make her feel more secure. Within a couple of months the aggression had stopped and she is now a happy settled member of the family. I am still working on the other who joined us! My collie x also thinks she needs to sort out cat squabbles etc or if they get near to my face she doesn't like it either. I hope it was a one off incident but do try to make more room in your heart for Thurston he must be a mixed up little thing but I'm guessing from your post you have had one of those moments where you have suddenly realised you love him very much too Good luck, let us know how things are going. xx

Thanks everyone for your advice.

Wilbar, thanks so much, what you have said makes a lot of sense. What we have been doing to stop Thurston attacking Kobie or Moxie is by shouting or shaking a rattle bottle or throwing something. This is mostly because my Mom is disabled and unable to go pick him up or chase him down.
When I'm home I respond by chasing after him, scooping him up and putting him in his room for a little while until he calms down. Could you suggest some more gentle ways to distract him? Especially for my mom who can't get to him when he's doing this? He LOVES playing with the laser pointer, but I don't know if that would distract his pursuit or not. I could try. He's just SO INTENT on hurting the other cat, we say he's 'in the zone' and its how we can tell its more than just play.
Honestly I was at my wits end with this several years ago but he's really improved and doesn't attack Kobie as much as he used to. (I think partly because now he has my a younger play buddy whose just as rough and tough as he is) Poor Kobie is very delicate, hes older and he was hit by a car when he was young and his fractures healed all wonky so he doesn't run as fast as the others and i think it hurts him when the others pounce in him in play, then he cries out in pain and that triggers some kind of primal attack instinct. I'm just guessing.

Now his relationship with Moxie I don't understand at all. He antagonizes her to no end. My brother adopted him from the clinic where I was working at the time where he was rescued by a doctor as a kitten. He was at the clinic for several months and the doctor thought it was funny to hold Thurston over her dog Max and have Thurston swat his face. No idea why she found this humerus, but she repeated this often. I think that taught him something. He's very aggressive towards all dogs, even my friends dogs that come to visit. He's swiped noses and made them bleed. He even scratched my elderly shelties eye and caused a bad infection that led to the loss of his sight in that eye.

Anyway, I guess my point is there really was a lot leading up to this attack. I agree the fact that she didn't hurt him says alot. I will try to make positive associations between Thurston and Moxie, and change the way I behave around him.

One quick question. These 'time outs' I use them frequently and he HATES it. He also gets locked in a separate room when I'm sleeping so my cats can sleep with me in peace. Its just been the way we've kept the peace for years. Do you think thats making things worse? I know sleeping with my cats has deepened our bond, maybe this is what Thurston needs? I do feel sorry for him. He was VERY attached to my brother and it took almost a year before he stopped waiting for him to come home at night.

Thanks so much for all the suggestions!

Hi muttzrule ~ I do feel for you ~ it must be difficult trying to be the peace keeper in a bit of a war zone! Now you've given me so much more info, pehaps I can suggest things that may help. But I think it will mean going back to basics for a while.

Firstly, is Thurston neutered? If not, get him done pronto!

As a bit of background, cats are very territorial creatures & most aggression between cats (& dogs in some cases) is caused by a need for territory. This includes both a core territory, where they can sleep, rest, eat & take care of bodily functions like grooming ~ in most cases this is the owner's home. But cats also need a wider territory to provide an area big enough to find prey & feed themselves, to find a mate, rear kittens etc.

Despite cats now being the most common pet in the UK, there are still question marks over whether they are really a domesticated species in the true sense of the word. And humans have had nowhere near the input into selective breeding as they have in other species. This means that cats' behaviours are still effectively "wild", biologically hardwired & ingrained, so this is why they stilll have these territorial needs & why they will still hunt prey, despite having a nice home & all they want to eat.

Most intercat conflict is caused by a perceived lack of the key resources that cats need for survival. This means things like warmth, sleeping & resting places, litter trays, food, water, scratching posts, social interactions & territory. If these resources are abundantly supplied then the chances of conflict are reduced & personally I think the best way to modify unwanted cat behaviours is to increase these key resources.

So for Thurston & Kobie, I would firstly have a look at where they sleep & where they choose to sleep & increase the availability of beds & resting places in these areas. Beds in warm, draft-free places, preferably at different heights should be provided, in different rooms depending on where they like to rest/sleep.

If your cats like to graze on dry food throughout the day, maybe put several feeding stations around the house (maybe windowsills where Moxie can't pinch the cat food?) & several watering places. Food & water don't need to be close together ~ they rarely are in the wild!

Cats can learn to time share overlapping territories so maybe observe when Kobie is more active, where he goes, & try to keep Thurston away at these times. Thurston can have access when Kobie is sleeping. But most important for Kobie's health, he needs a "comfort zone" to call his own ~ maybe a room in your house that Thurston doesn't go into that can be set up with everything Kobie needs?

As for Thurston & Moxie ~ I would suggest that you try the rewarding with highly palatable treats in each other's presence. Try to establish more of a bond with Thurston by giving him a bit of individual attention & doing anything that makes him purr ~ grooming, petting, hand-feeding? It need only be for 5 mins at a time several times a day.

I would think that Thurston's early experiences with dogs must have been extremely frightening for him ~ if you are a cat, being dangled above a dog would probably be terrifying & as there was no escape, poor Thurston had no choice but to react with aggression! It can't have done much for his view of dogs so now poor Moxie's taking the brunt of it.

The best way to deal with any signs of discomfort between your pets is to try to stop them before it develops into any overt aggression. With cats it usually starts with staring, tense muscles, wide eyes. Cats that are feeling anxious have "closed" body language, sit hunched up, with paws tucked under them, tail curled tightly round their body, head sunk into neck. Confident & happy cats are more likely to have "open" body language, sit more upright, or walk towards you with upright tail in greeting, or the tail is in a "loopy J" position showing they are confident & relaxed. So maybe watch for these signs in Kobie & Thurston to give you an idea of how they are feeling.

If you detect signs of conflict, try to distract/remove from each other by calling Thurston towards you & away from Moxie or Kobie ~cats generally respond better to high-pitched, happy, upbeat voices, so no shouting, growling or deep voices. I understand that it is difficult for your mother to intervene, but if she can train Thurston to come towards her (the same as you'd teach a dog a recall using food rewards) then this may be an option. It may be more difficult in Moxie's presence as no doubt Moxie will respond if there's food on offer but possibly throw Moxie's treat away from her & give Thurston a treat from her hand, or drop it on the floor nearby. Water pistols, rattleboxes, any sudden loud noises are very unlikely to have the intended effect on Thurston ~ if he's already feeling stressed & under pressure, this will only make it worse & possibly feel he has to up the ante to secure the resources he feels he needs.

As for time out ~ I don't honestly think that Thurston will understand this. Dogs are social creatures so removing them from social contact will be a form of punishment & maybe they will learn from this. Cats don't learn from punishment & they don't necessarily need social contact, so all Thurston may learn is that sometimes you shut him away ~ but I doubt he will associate the time out with his own actions. But there's nothing wrong with removing one or both of the cats from a conflict situation ~ you just have to make this avoidance of conflict into a happy & rewarding experience. So maybe remove Kobie to his comfort zone but then stay with him for a few minutes, settle him down in a warm bed, fuss him, offer food treats etc. Make going to this place a pleasurable experience.

I would caution the use of laser toys or anything else that invokes predatory behaviour in the cats ~ because this is all it is, & the physiology that goes with predatory behaviour is not conducive to new learning or being quiet & relaxed. There's nothing wrong with play behaviour or teaching mentally stimulating things to a cat, but without fast predatory play.

Another thing you could do with Thurston is clicker training. If you are interested in clicker training cats, let me know & I can send you a fact sheet on how to do it. It can work very well with cats ~ if you google cats & clicker training & Karen Pryor, you'll probably be able to find some footage of cats going around small agility courses. It can be a great thing to build up postive relationships with cats, & provide mental stimulation.

I hope this helps but feel free to ask any questions anytime ~ I'm happy to help if I can.