If you don't clear up the mess they make (bodies and so forth) they come back for the rest of the food, and will often make repeat visits once they have been able to get food somewhere (exactly like repeat visits to a garden when people leave food for them).

This means that it's often easy for someone to either place a trap, or wait it out to shoot them, as they return to the food...

http://www.gwct.org.uk/research__sur...aders/1651.asp

There is a scientific paper if you want to read deeper.

I was involved in this as I was research assistant every summer for 4 years. It was AMAZING to see the difference on the previously unkeepered areas, to see the curlews displaying again. When walking across the unkeepered plot, before the switch, it was pretty much dead, there was the odd wader around, and the odd grouse but nothing special. When they switched to the keepered plot, it was just unbelievable how quickly things came back - curlews, lapwing displaying, an abundance of grouse, etc etc.

To see that first hand, really makes me believe that foxes must be controlled. I remember walking through a keepered plot and finding a fox. I knew I had to tell the keeper it was there, but I wasn't happy about doing so. I am not blood thirsty, and don't like to see things killed needlessly, but again, I believe foxes need to be controlled.

Lapwings are on the red list now, so are critically declining. We have plenty on here...but foxes and other predators are controlled. The RSPB will now control predators, although very quietly as it doesn't sit well with your average joe public.

Now to the cost of it. Foxes on a grouse moor can cause a lot of damage, which I have seen for myself. A "small" grouse day will bring in £18,000 for one day. Take into account all the keeper employed, their families who live with them in their houses which they get for free, and certainly couldn't afford if they had to pay. The beaters on the shoot day, the pickers up, loaders, caterers, beaters bus driver. The shepherds who are employed as part of the working estate, the gardeners, the foresty men. No grouse, no shoot day.

It is believed that £23.3 million is generated for the Scottish economy for grouse shooting. That is an awful lot of money.

Yes, foxes are controlled, yes it's a lot to do with money but where would we be without that money?

Helen

When we lost our chickens, we put my trail camera out and caught the fox coming back 3 times. Unfortunately, we didn't have a trap big enough, but just wanted evidence that it actually was a fox and not a stray dog.

Helen

We are the most intelligent creatures on earth, and unfortunately the best predators if allowed to use weapons (unarmed we are pretty much defenceless against an animal such as an elephant or a big cat). Which makes it even the more amazing that being so intelligent, we are still destroying the very planet upon which we depend for survival. I agree with you that killing for fun is awful, killing for food and for survival fine, but I can see nothing enjoyable in killing anything just for the sake of it, or because it is interfering in my life in some way.

I have already explained the difference ... as I perceive it ... between a rabbit being pursued and a fox in a later post, so I won't bore you by repeating myself.

Well said H - I hate killing anything, even flies, and personally do not kill wasps as they do an awful lot of good. I will go to extreme lengths to rescue them and bees from our conservatory when they get trapped, and spent a lot of time on holiday recently rescuing various flying insects from the hot tub in the garden!!

Me too used to go hunting, I am ashamed to admit. I used to love it when Charlie got away ... after all, to my mind the fun was in the chase, not the kill. I always wanted him to get away, to outwit and outfox (no pun intended!) hounds so that we got a better run. I would never call out "Ware fox", even if I saw one. Some foxes were really clued up, and I could see them taking the Michael out of hounds. However, that was in the old days before some hunts decided to flush out foxes with terriers and then stop up the earths and other holes to prevent them being able to go to ground. That is cruel, sick and barbaric and is probably one of the main reasons why hunting was banned in the first place.

Have to correct you on the wasp front H!! Agreed they sting, but only if we interfere with them. Virtually every year we have a wasp nest somewhere in the garden, and we just make a note of where they are and leave them be. Wasps do an incredible amount of good - for instance, they prey on a variety of garden pests such as green, white and blackfly, in winter the queens hibernate and kill around 100 blow flies to keep them going through the winter months. There was a programme on Radio 4 a few months ago advising that we should not kill them, but leave them be. The only time they can be a real danger is to anyone who is seriously allergic to wasp venom, or if they nest in your roof or attic. You should then ring the local council to unfortunately dispose of them because the weight of the nest could cause the ceiling to collapse, with horrendous consequences!

I agree with you on every other point!

Id be straight round there and tell them to shut the thing up! No question. Its a noise nuisance and should be dealt with as such. its another perfect example of countryside type animals living in towns, you have demonstrated it perfectly.

However, if you choose to allow it to continue then of course thats entirely up to you.

They do indeed. Mange being one of the more serious ... leptospirosis is another danger. However, as far as I know, not many mangey or lepto foxes will come and jump on my plate of food like flies will. Flies are the biggest spreader of disease, and if you eat fly-blown meat or fish you will be extremely ill. mange whilst very unpleasant - I know, I've had it - will not kill you. Cats carry and have mange, so do many pet dogs, so it is not fair to pick on foxes for spreading mange. Lepto you would have a point with, but I do not have my dogs vaccinated every year, and our vet has said that their main risk is from lepto. However, in the 15 years we have dogs in our current house, where foxes come into our garden a lot as we are right on the edge of open fields, not once has any dog ever got sick, so the risk is very small, far far smaller than the risk of a blow fly contaminating my meat!

You are correct about wasps!!

There you go again ... the ARROGANCE of human beings!! All Charlie is trying to do is to earn his living. So is the landowner with his pheasant shoots. Ipso facto, the landowner should fence in the young pheasants in large pens until they can fly well enough to get away from the fox ... as our local estate do. There is a huge copse which is surrounded by electrified fencing to a height of about 12 feet so Charlie cannot get in. The pheasants are raised safely in there until they are big enough to fly up into the trees at night to roost, when the fence is turned off. Simples!!

Just because I believe in the rights of wildlife does not make me a member of the fluffy brigade! I am anything but!! I know you are not accusing me per se, but by inference ... please stop!!