Ah so I not only STARVE dogs now, but I also ABUSE them? And I BEND THEM TO MY WILL!

ROFLMAO I think you should meet my dogs, my clients and their dogs, you will find nothing could be further from the truth!

If you wish to put words in my mouth that is of course your privilege.

If you wish to infer from my posts something other than is said, that is your choice.

The thing is, that neither option makes you correct!

LOL

Your accusations are, as always, very revealing!

True, but why would you want to inflict such a punishment on your dog!

You obviously have no problem with such methods, fine, but dotn expect others to find it palatable.

I would have thought the fact you are withholding food for 4 days is abuse, and you are doing it for the sole reason to get your dogs to "obey" you.

So BM, is not far off her assumption is she when she accuses you of abuse!

But food is not being witheld. It is there if the dog wants it. It is just being given in a different place, out on a walk rather than from a bowl. Many trainers advocated feeding food rations when training.

Originally Posted by smokeybear

I KNOW what starvation is, and it aint going without food for a few days!

You need captials to enphasie your point, you ar not alone on KNOWING what starvation is ,

No I do not NEED capitals, using them is a means of emphasis, the same as using italics, underlining or emboldening text (or all three) LOL

It is something that people use in text

Dogs in the wild, actually feast and fast. They gorge and then they do not eat for days.


We are not talking about dogs in the wild why do people have to always use that point,

Er because we LIKE to use that point because it demonstrates that this is their NATURAL behaviour, the same way as eating raw food is NATURAL to them and NORMAL not anything out of the ordinary!

So if I have a dog that has got the squits do I FAST it or do I STARVE it?The two are not the same.


Persoanaly I do neither, I allo wmy dog to fast itsself, then I introduce bland food when he is willing to take it.

Sometimes we have to do what we think is best for the dog and not keep offering food until we see it is willing to take it. Some dogs do not know when they should not eat, like children, so as responsible carers we need to know when it is wise not to eat.

A bit like STARVING a dog before an operation!¬

As I said, if you are happy not to have a reliable recall and be restricted by that fact, that is up to you.

Who said I dont have a reliable recall

When I use the word "you" it does not necessarily mean I am addressing YOU, it is just a figure of speech, used by many.

But if you WANT a reliable recall then there is no reason you cannot have one with the majority of dogs and the majority of breeds.

True, but in some cases the dogs dont read the books and reliable is never going to be in their vocabulary

As this statement actually mirrors mine it is superfluous. In fact I have found that dogs do not read books in ALL cases!


I certainly would NOT equate FASTING or making a dog HUNGRY with E collars.

I would certainly equate withholding food for 4 days with the same cruelty as one would use using e.collars.

Yes, I know, it is interesting, how some people think it cruel to deny their dogs anything, but again it is not CRUEL to withhold food, only CRUEL to starve.

Some people think it is CRUEL to leave a dog alone all day. OR to not let it go upstairs etc etc. We all have our own particular parameters don't we?


In fact to say such a thing is total nonsense as of course one is NEGATIVE punishment, the other is POSITIVE punishment.


In your opinion I might add, thankfully its not the only one .

That is what forums are for, sharing opinions, right, wrong, informed or not.


I call withholding food for such a time as a negative, not a positive.

Er yes, that is what I said, a negative punishment not a positive one, I am glad you agree.

STARVATION of course IS a positive punishment.

But nobody ever STARVED going without food for few days!

True, but why would you want to inflict such a punishment on your dog!

But I do not see witholding food a terrible punishment, witholding WATER would be. You do.

You obviously have no problem with such methods, fine, but dotn expect others to find it palatable.

Difficult to find anything palatable when you are not eating anything isn't it?!

I do not EXPECT others to do anything, the same way as your views may not be palatable to many others.

We are all different, thank goodness eh?

Yup I use my dogs food along with other things during training
and yup if we are doing agility or something then their tea will be a little later than usual - after the class

BUT
SB said to withold food for several days
That is not the same

Well to my mind food is available to the dog if he wants to come and get it. That is not the same as witholding food for several days.

I have looked but I cannot find the post where that FACT appeared?

You know the one where I am withholding food for 4 days?

Can you see that anywhere? Did I overlook it?

And where does it say that witholding food is for the SOLE reason to get my dogs to obey me?

Do you have a SOLE reason why you train your dogs.

So we have established that both yourself and BM believe that I am an abuser of animals.

I would report me if I was you, I don't know how you could live with yourself to know that I was practising animal abuse by the cruelty I am inflicting on all these dogs and putting them at such risk

Witholding food for several days is NOT positive punishment

with positive punishment the dogs action causes something to happen that he wishes to not happen again so he learns not to do that thing again
the punishment has to be quick after the undersired behaviour

The dog is not going to equate not paying attention to you in the park to not getting his dinner 12 hours later

Witholding the food is just to make the dog so bl00dy hungry that he becomes totaly focused on getting food


IF my dog had the squits and I just fasted him for 4 days without getting a vet to look at him that would be cruelty
yes possibly it is needed to skip A meal or two - but if more than a day is needed then that is very cruel

thats where the 4 days came from