Obsession in collie

Ok, i have posted a thread about this before(it wasnt a huge issue then, but it is now) i felt it needed a new thread as its reached a new level.

Ripley (8 1/2 months, border collie) has always been too interested in our cat, she stalks her and tries to herd her, but when she makes contact(the cat wasnt afraid of her) she wouldnt just kind of 'dance' above her to make her move again.

Just recently the cat has been reluctant to go through the kitchen(where the dogs spend the majority of time during the day) its where her cat flap is and also her food is in there(on the side away from dogs)
she doesnt run as shes not a flighty cat.

But things have changed over the last few days, ripley 'caught' the cat and nipped her several times (didnt injure her as such but was enough to make her run off)
Now everytime she does this, sadie hates it and barks and usually floors ripley in a what looks just like sadies normal aggressive style play.

This morning i was in the other room and all hell broke out with the dogs having a fight, it only took a loud shout and they were off each other, i left it at that but stayed in the room with them doing normal stuff but keeping an eye on them, then the cat came in, ripley chased her at speed and again sadie attacked her for a few seconds.

I dont know whether its a silly thing to suggest, but sadie and the cat have always been 'close' sharing beds, playing chase(yes really lol) so im thinking ripleys behaviour towards the cat is causing the fights?

My main concern is the safety of my cat, i can change her feeding place but not her cat flap, its at the point where i have to keep them separate all the time(apart from kitchen obviously) as ripley is just fixated.

I have tried distraction training but cannot get her attention of the cat for more than half a second.

I have been having similar problems with Dizzy who is 7 months and a collie cross. She was chasing my cats and had started to nip. I have gone back to real basics with her with high value treats and rewarding everytime she looks at the cat without reacting.

Is there a window the cat could use as temporary measure to come in and out? Does Ripley have a pen that you could put her/him (sorry I'm not sure) in if you cannot get her attention so you could treat when the cat comes in the room if no reaction is shown?

What are their interactions in the rest of the house like?

It has taken a good few weeks of intense work with Dizzy and we have got to the point where most of the time she will just watch longingly as they walk round the house but will leave them unless they try to come anywhere near me! We have been working on this for the last few days and are begining to have some success!

Sensible advice from Aliwin.

As you already know, you really do neep to nip (sorry no pun inteaded) this in the bud as the longer it goes on the more self rewarding it is and the harder to break.

Its more difficult for you with something like this as you can't easily control the cat's movements but in order to crack it I think you will have to be around every time Ripley sees the cat so that you can reinforce the 'correct' behaviour for her. Everytime she gets to chase/nip the cat, you are back to square one.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Sadie is telling Ripley off and in some instances this can be quite effective, the trouble is that Ripley is obviously very highly 'wound up' when she's watching the cat so Sadie's interference is not being accepted hence the fight.

I've tried various techniques to stop this kind of behaviour with varying success. I have to say though that the most successful is simply putting my foot down and and making them lie still since as you say, 9/10 whatever you are trying to distract them with is less interesting than what they are obssessed with. But it takes a lot of consistency before this method actually stops the obsession.

We have had this with Skye hun.

Skye is farm stock and very herdy nothing like the other two who simply are not interested.

Skye does have a pattern however which makes it easier to manage, she runs at the cats (well Norton mainly) when someone comes to the door and she herds him, with a quick nip to say ''move it'' as there is a pattern with her, I tell her to Leave (firmly) when the door knocks, she's realised that this means LEAVE anything, not just the cat/s.

Have to point out though that this is a practice I always have to do otherwise poor cats are herded and held

When i say i cant distract her..i mean just that! she will not take her eyes off her, even when she was in her crate(i dont use it anymore) she would just stare at the cat.

Interaction in the rest of the house is none, as the cat isnt very sociable so sleeps upstairs out the way, but i purposely keep them seperate as ripley will not leave her, if the cat appears then ripleys freezes and stares and NOTHING can move her from the spot, not tasty treats, high pitched excited calling, or a firm tone to call her away, even pulling her by the collar away is hard as she wont take her eyes of the cat! i now have to pick her up and remover her from the same room.
They really cannot be in the same room.

what i have been doing so far is get ripley in a down, which she will do without taking her eyes off the cat, make her wait in the down, and pick the cat up and move her out of sight. I then reward ripley when i can see she has relaxed.

Im just so glad that my cat isnt sociable, as if she was i would be at the stage of seriously considering rehoming her, which would devastate me, but hopefully it wont come to that.

The only other option with regards the cat flap, is to make her wait at the front door(lol she wouldnt be happy about having to ask to be let in!!)

quite a problem, as you rightly say an obcession and these are the most dificult to break with Collies.

Have you tried a training lead when the cat is around, as she goes for the cat making it easier to stop and reward.

This looks like a back to basics....and really back by walking her passed (using the lead) rewarding, getting the stay and leave...rewarding.

I know what you mean honest I do we had a real problem with Skye when she started it and it took with all that in place, around 2 months and that was constant training.

In the past I have known Skye to leap on the sofa and try to leap to Norton (who was sleeping peacefully on the fish tank) and I caught her mid air and plonked her back onto the floor....quite a catch I thought

Back to simple basics will be the only way till she learns that this bad habit has to stop.

hard work though hun I don't envy you xxxxx

It has been really hard work with Dizzy too and we ain't there yet!!! Having 6 cats though failure is not an option! I also have an indoor disabled cat and 3 more that rarely leave the house by choice which means that they really do have to get along.

The cats have upstairs as Dizzy is only allowed up there with an escort Dizzy will stand over the cats still but rarely does anything now just looks at me when they are bunting her face as if to say can I mum can I!!! And that was from her chasing, jumping kind of on top of them and nipping. As Steph says I have had to catch her in mid air when she decides to take a flying leap!

I don't think unfortunatly there is a quick fix for this one and going by Dizz I reckon it is going to be ongoing.

Sorry you are having such a problem. Is there anywhere you could keep the dogs, other than the kitchen, so the cat can get out of her flap without the fear of being chased and nipped?

I would suggest that perhaps management may prove easier than cure in this instance. If there is a way of keeping the dogs and cat separate then that may be the only way to go, while working on Ripley's prey drive.

From the Border Collies I've met, they need a job to obsess over.. or they will invent one themselves.

Jake has been in my family for 10 years. We picked him up when he was just 9 weeks old, and the first toy we bought him was a golf ball sized Tennis Ball. And his obsession began.

Border Collies are known for their gazing stare, also known by some as "The Eye". It is their most often used tool for herding. When you see Ripley is refusing to break eye contact, that is because she is in herding mode for your cats. And it will take something extreme to break her concentration, always will.

Training well help curb Ripley's behavior, but what it wont provide is a replacement job.

Jake's job is to play with Toys. He knows toys by name, and remembers where all of them are around the house and yard. We can easily sit in the Family Room watching a TV program and not even know he is there... in a crouched position.. stalking his favorite squeaky-toy. He wont complain, bark, or cry for attention. He will sometimes reposition the toy so that it will definitely cross our paths when we get up... increasing the likelihood that someone will throw it for him.

When other animals are around, the new stimulus will capture Jake's attention in the beginning.. "Oh something new!??" But it will not last. Once Jake has been thoroughly introduced he will find the nearest toy and stare at it. The other Dogs, People, or Animals will continue to want to socialize with him, but this is merely a challenge for Jake.... to see how well he can keep that toy in focus with these "distractions".

Most of my family (immediate and extended) dont understand his border collie complex and feel bad for him. "How can he just sit there and stare!.. Quick, someone throw the toy for him." So needless to say, he has them all very well trained.

Jake does not nip, thankfully. And because Fetching Toys are his base-obsession, he will not herd children. But Jake's friend William, was graced with all of these classic BC traits. William's owners did not research BC behavior ahead of time, and waited till he was too old where the behavior became cemented. They did not have the dedication in training to correct the behavior. He nipped the back of my leg because I ignored his toy staring, something Jake has NEVER done.

But the idea of a "base-obsession" is common in all of the Non-Working Border Collies I have met. They need a job, and as an Obsessive Compulsive breed... that job will identify them. Their job needs to be challenging, entertaining and stimulating... both mentally and physically. And they will want to (in their eyes) perfect that job. It is up to the owner to guide their interest. And their dedication to their job is very intense.


Aside from instructing Ripley to not herd the cats, you may need to wean her onto something she can dedicate her energies to.. especially something while she is in the presence of the Cats.

A day full of fun outside chasing a tennis ball will establish the baseline memory of fun these toys. Repeat these types of activities and this notion is cemented. Eventually, it could be possible to have Ripley in the house and more interested in the ball laying still on the floor than the cats wandering around.

How much training/play is required before Ripley is more interested in Toys than Cats? I do not know. But this is where I would start if I had to break a BC of a herding habit.

I will definately work as suggested by others, I'll maybe have a rethink as to where they can be so as to avoid the cat.

straza: I know all about the prey drive and the 'eye' is typical herding trait of collies.
We do alot of mental and physical stimulation. She does play with toys, in a very healthy manner, i do want to encourage this any more as i dont want this to lead into an obsession over toys.
I do alot of obedience training and also agility training, the only obsession she has(other than the cat!) is to please me and i would like to keep it that way.
she is definately not bored..i wish she was as then this may be easier to sort out!