Help with comp ob

hi guys, i have recently taken up comp ob with Inca (kelpie x) and Jasmine (collie). anyway things have been going really well and im deff getting addicted, just got one or two queries im hoping you can help me with;
firstly, retrieve, *sigh* so far so good with Jas, started off clicker training for a short "hold" then moved onto the "forced" hold as she wouldnt hold it for longer than two seconds, i tried for WEEKS lol, anyway that worked really well for her and she is holding it longer and longer without assistance. Inca, however, is NOT getting it, we can do the short hold with the clicker, but she did NOT like the force hold and refused to go near the dumbell after i tried it lol, so we scrapped that! i have also tried asking for two short holds before clicking in hope that she would "cut to the chase" and hold it for longer,... nope! so after three months, we havent progressed and so need some help!!! i realise the retrieve is not vital at this stage as the first few comps (if we ever get that far) dont require the retrieve, but i really want to be able to do it, regardless!
Also to make it clear the forced hold was done gently, loads of praise, treats toys, tried it three times i think and she seriously was NOT impressed, and if Inca dont like something, she AINT gonna do it lol.

second "issue"; how to use the bloody lead!! i just dont understand it, my trainer, who is lovely, keeps telling me i should have the lead under the chin and use it to keep the head up, it never stays in place and i spend more time messing with the lead than i do concentrating on what my dog is doing lol. i also dont really see the point, i have trained the "head on" command and they do it quite nicely, so why do i need to use the lead?

anyway, any tips/advice would be VERY appreciated
might end up adding more little bits as i think about them lol

Can't help, Dawes Pawes, sorry. My lurcher just thought holding the dumbell might be worthy of a treat, opportunist that she is, so we never had any trouble. And, at the time, we were doing a bit of hide the object, as she loved quartering the ground, and finding it, so she was basically doing a retrieve, as well. Best of luck, hope to see you at Crufts!

I have successfully trained the hold with a clicker but it has taken quite a while, yes mine only held the dumbell for a couple of seconds,and yes she droppedit, and yes she mouthed but she did learn that if she didnt do it,.....no click no titbit but break it all down into tiny bits persever I'm sure it will come right... as for heel work i always train it off lead starting with wide work and training "the touch"
Good Luck i'm sure you will get there

haha!! dont think that'll ever happen lol, would be happy with pre-beginners!

yes if i withold the click she knows she needs to hold it, but i dont think im "explaining" to her properly, that she needs to hold it for longer lol
as for the lead, that is how i started, but in classes my trainer wants us to "use" our leads and i just aint got a clue pmsl!

give me pet Ob any day lol

Dumbell

If i hold it in ONE hand on ONE side, that means HOLD
If i hold it with two hands, one on each side that means LEAVE.

So i will practise HOLD/LEAVE/HOLD/LEAVE until ive got that cracked
then i will hold the dumbel up & get the dog to "hold on" & have a good game, (not quite tuggy but gripped!) & have the dog jumping up for it etc.
Thiswill get your Hold more solid.

With the lead it can be used in two ways,
to correct or motivate. If you prime the lead right it can be a great motivator.But not every dog likes the contact, & some people seem to be only be able to correct.

Who are you training with?

thanks Mish
ok so the dumbell, she has started pulling it away from me and ive still been clicking for that, but wasnt actually sure if i was right! did NOT know about the one hand two hand thing, very helpful! can deff get her jumping for it, thank you!!
as for the lead, yes used as motivator, trainer doesnt use any corrections, other than just to get the dog into the right position. ie, for present, if theyre not straight, rather than going "oh dear" or whatever and luring her into the correct position, we just keep walking backwards until they find the right position and reward.
so in using it as a motivator, its completely alien to me and i dont understand!!
Trainer is called Mo Graham (i think lol) with Newton heath dtc and as far as i know they are the only club who do comp ob around here

eta: so as soon as i place two hands on the dumbell, they should leave it? i thought they had to actually wait for the verbal command? or do you just time it so you say leave at just the right moment?

I dont like using the clicker for ret tbh, find it too slow.
Say "leave" AS you put both hands on

bit of lead use here (with my pup)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8riUw_l_3HY

dunno if thats helpful?

I know Mo , shes lovely!

Hope to see you at some shows this year! its FABBY

phew!! so glad you said you liked Mo lol, was terrified youd say she was rubbish or something lol, how do you know her? tbh as ive only been doing this a few months i still feel like an utter novice and Mo was recommended to me, so just assumed she was good lol.
have watched your vids before and only wish i could be half as good! and yes VERY helpful, i notice you have the collar very loose, is that intentional? does seem to be making more sense, but how do you get them to understand that pressure on the collar is a good thing, is it just simply conditioning? ie, pressure-"good girl"-reward?
so you basically get them excited about the dumbell and are happy to have them grabbing at it?

as for shows... umm.... would love to but no idea if it will ever happen lol

We ALL know each other from shows, & shes judged Mav a few times other the years & likes him! XXxx

The collar, well, it is too loose, its too big for her & it cant be made any smaller, but it was made for her & is so pretty.

If you use a flat collar i DO like abit of movement.
(not that much though)

Zo dislikes a half slip, it depends on the dog.

I just play ruff i suppose,

Get the dogs attention watching you, "ready" touch lead "steady " touch lead "get it " & good game

Also dont use the lead as correction, use it to consolidate when its going well, & its not even a jerk, its a touch, a slight pressure /release, so you only want to be doing "head on" slight pressure/. release "thats it good heady on"

Also with dumbell. To get Hold stronger, hold dogs collar , & dumbel in other hand, hold the dog "off" the dumbbell & move, circle run, ask the dog to get it & keep moving, "get it get it" tight circle Then let the dog get it Say "HOLD" (one hand) swing infront, try to get a jump up, then you can ask for a "leave" (two hands)

Eventually you will change that to a hold on collar/throw/ run back/ jump up /leave
so you can get it really motivated & fast, THEN put in the wait & present.

hope this helps