I also know of top breeders in my breed "Boxers" who have been in the bred for many many yrs, have had and still have Champions in their home......who are addiment they are not breeding again....and I can back this up with names, but I wont( not my place to)

It has nothing to do with the fact, they are fickle, and they suddenly dont want that breed just because it has a tail...... some have been in the breed for over 30/40 yrs.... and are devoted to the breed.

It has all to do with ,their rights being taken away, as someone said, "throwing their toys out of the pram" well yes maybe you are right.... and maybe when they have calmed down they may change their mind. but maybe they wont, old habbits are hard to change.... people have put a lifetime into producing the "near perfect example" of their breed..... maybe they just cant face up to having to deal with a whole new standard , because it will change the standard of the docked breed..... it is not as simple as leaving tails on..... they are going to have to have a standard...how to carry it (it does state in the breed standard the correct way) but it is going to take yrs of breeding for all docked breeds to get the correct look... and for the few countries that dont dock their is no uniformed example.

their was a undocked Boxer at crufts last yr, he was stunning, but his tail was like a whippets, by the way he did not get placed.

So although , I an a little disappointed to her "names " are dropping out of breeding, they will be missed.....but they will still hold onto their dogs , and love them just as much, retiring them to the sofa i think.

I think for anyone to understand why some people have taken the desicion to bow out, is look to your own breed, if you have put yrs of breeding the best you can, then someone tells you you have to change something about the standard, something drastic, that will change the look forever, you may feel a little incensed.

This is why some people feel like they do....the nanny state raises its head again.

I am not trying to continue the docking debate, we all have our views on that.....but I just felt it may be of interest to "understand" why people feel as they do.... this wont convince the "hard liners" who only see their own point of view, but fo someone who may try to understand why someone feels the cant continue in a breed, they love.

And by the way , the breed will miss them, you cant throw away yrs of experience, or bloodlines....hopefully some may have a change of heart.

Yes other people can breed from their lines if they have bought a dog from a kennel, but as we know any can breed anthing, it does not mean it will be a good example... so although the "line" may still be their the " qaulity" may not be.

As I said before, the tail set will be the same whether docked or not and it's the tail set that determines the carriage (discluding other factors like excitability when the tail would be raised, etc). As for tail lengths, there's no reason why an undocked puppy from docked parantage shouldn't have the correct length of tail. Of course, in all breeds some puppies do have shorter tails than others. These will have to be looked on the same as a short tail in any other breed. There simply isn't a problem

Debs

Thanks for that Jackie, to hear an unbiased opinion was what I was looking for, it's very difficult for me to understand as I'm not affected and I thought I must have been missing something

Thats so true Debs, in English Setters you have to be careful that you don't breed anything with a "gay tail" as this can be hereditary, also a low tail set. With a low tail set that would be the same in a docked breed so you would be able to tell if it has the fault, I'm not sure about the gay tail though as I've seen dogs with great tail sets that look stunning standing but when they move, oh dear I suppose it will be up to the breeders to ensure that this is bred out of their lines as we with tailed breeds do.

I know of a few top breeders of cockers that said they wouldn't breed again if the ban came into effect, but I know they now have litters with tails, so I think it was a just a knee jerk reaction, if you love the breed as apparently they all do, it's not going to make any difference just because it has a body part it was born with.

My cocker pups have kept their tails for over 5 years now, I have 2 docked ( ages 6 & and the remaining 6 have full waggy tails!

I wonder if everybody will stop smoking once July comes as they won't be allowed to smoke in public buildings?? I doubt it very much.....another right being taken away??

Personally I think that just because something has been "going on for decade" it doesn't automatically make it right!
To make such a statement is the same as condoning bullfighting, dog fighting, slavery, war, hunger etc etc
People live and learn and improve things where they can. Now it has come to dogs in UK, about bloody time they got handed a more fair deal! And as to the choice?? of breeders? What about the rights of animals? Or do we not love them THAT much after all?

i agree it will be a shame

JUDGES ! plural. i also read a post 2 weeks ago where someone agreed on this point.

What's all this about peoples 'rights'. Docking wasn't banned to take away someone's choice, it was banned because it has been deemed to be a cruel practice, why they put in an exemption for working dogs is beyond me, and has been deemed cruel for over a century. Tail docking was nearly banned at the same time as ear cropping back in the late 1800's but it was decided that as long as tail gouging of certain breeds was no longer carried out then it could continue.
Becky

so , we're now into breeding for tails, not heads, movement, teeth, topline, angulation, etc. it proves the point i was trying to make whe i started this thread.