Will ask my hubby later when I go up to the sheep sheds to help roll some wool as he is busy clipping all day.

In pretty much all cases I prefer the look of the working dog - which is funny when the show dog has been bred for looks
My trainer has a retrever from working lines and at 7 months old the differences are so different
Much darker colour and she is soo muscly

Really you shouldnt get me started on this - but here I go!!

As collies are my fave breed heres a couple of examples

Show dog



Working dog


To me these show dogs just no longer look as if they can run all day - back and backend angle dosent look right
Coat is to long and silky for any shepard to spend time getting tangles out of, head shape is too rounded to give a more puppyish look
Most of the dogs move like they could do with loosing a few pounds
the variations in the dogs are at a minimum - you might get a few merls or a red dog but markings are almost identical - earset pretty much the same

but in my book the worst thing there is the look in the eye
there is no sharp look of inteligence in the show dog

TBH these dogs look more like Aussies than BC's

I have taken a photo of the photo of the hunt (!!), to give you an idea of the bloodhounds

Totally agree - glad you said it though, as I always seem to be ranting on about working collies on here

Here are a selection of our working collies. Compare them to the dogs you see in the show ring and I know which I would choose every single time ...

I wonder how many young show bred collies show eye like this at a young age ?



What a handsome dog, and he can do the job too



He would never win any beauty contests, but look at how intent he is on his work ...



Dogs working well together ...



He is not only stunning to look at, but he can loves his work too



Think you have the idea I don't have any show photos to compare though!

Like the tri bareskin

I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. I'm probably over-sensitive about it, but I really don't like this generalisation. My lad, Alfie, is from show lines & he is just about to begin competing in competitive obedience and agility. He is obsessed with learning new things, he adores it and is constantly using his brain. What I think perhaps is the issue, is that some (note I say some) dogs in the showing world are not taught to learn. The pups have no drive to learn because they've never done it before, other than to learn to stand for the judge. They are not treated like Border Collies in some cases, I think it's perfectly possible to show a dog, but also let it run & learn, but sometimes this does not happen. This is what causes some dogs to be overweight, and not have that sharpness.

Alfie has a big thick coat, but he never stops running. He swims, runs through reeds & big tall plants, he can go for hours & I have to say, I'm fairly lazy about brushing him, yet his coat stays knot-free!

I agree that the lifestyle that working BCs lead is in many cases much better for the breed (note I don't say all!), but I don't think it's fair to judge the actual dogs and suggest that just because a dog comes from show lines, it isn't intelligent.

I sound like I am 100% show dog, which I'm not, I think working BCs are amazing and I love seeing Moobli's pictures so much. My next BC will most likely be from a more working line. However, I just think people should not be so quick to judge I'm a teenager with a show-line border collie, so if stereotypes are correct, I should be about to stab someone or get drunk on the street corner, and Alfie should not even know sit

Here's Alfie!





Alf the show dog:



Alf the agility dog:



I don't have any obedience pictures But he does that too (me, not so much, but he's fab!).

Aliceanddogs - sorry I ment the dogs in the foto do not have the bright look - one just looks like he is saying 'get me out of here'
Those fotos are from the Westminster shows - I picked them cos I knew I could find fotos showing the worst of the showing breeds


Your dog is a handsome fella and I am glad you are treating him as the collie he is and not just a pretty face - a much happier life for a dog with an active mind and a joy for learning
My boy only has part collie in him but I would not be giving him the full life he deserves if I wasnt helping him use his brain every day (haha we have been doing HTM today and he is at the moment under my feet snoring his little nose off!!)

But Moblie's dogs just give me the chills
I adore that focus and drive, to me I would pick every one of those dogs over show dogs
I disagree with breeding show line border collies
The reason for that is that a border collie IS its ability to work and its brain - the look is a lovely side effect
The drive to work is a subtle thing and can be lost with 'bad' breeding v easily
Breed 2 working collies together and some pups will work some wont, those that wont should be given to pet homes - where they can do any sports or showing they want but never bred from - because it is unlikely that they will have the drive to work
So if you breed for looks and not for work then the dog looses the ability to work and then what you have in not a border collie - it is a pretty dog that looks a bit like one but is not! - sorry thats just what I believe

How do you feel about dogs bred for sport then? This is just totally out of interest now, I don't really know were I stand on the whole BC breeding front, it's all too complicated for me!

Oh me too, I think they are absolutely amazing.

But just because a dog is from show lines, it doesn't mean it will never have that same focus & drive

I tell you what I would love though, a line of dogs that did both herding and a bit of showing. After all, other breeds manage it, it seems a shame that there's so few dogs doing it in our breed.

I feel the same about the breeding for sport thing
I know in america there are some kennels breeding for sport but they find every few generations they have to cross back to a working dog because they begin to loose the drive
The thing is dog sports only show a little of the skills needed for a true working dog, so a dog that excells in a sport might only have a small drive to actually herd, then it is bred and produces so-so puppies who would have no real abitily in the farm situation but do OK at the sport
they are bred and produce dogs who just dont have that spark
V few show dogs would have the true spark because geneticly it is easily lost and needs bred for with every single mating

Interestingly I saw a paper on genetics of dog breeds and there was such a large split between the show dogs compaired to the working and pet dogs - geneticaly these dogs were different enough to be considered a different breed
granted it was a small sample of austrailian and american dogs - but still v interesting

I dont think you could get many winning dogs who showed and worked
Most show dogs wouldnt be useful to a farmer - they have lost the herding drive (and rounding up cats isnt the same) and that cannot be trained it is born with
and most working dogs dont have the 'look' a show judge is looking for
although they fit in with the breed standard there has been a trend towards show dogs being heavier in limb than working dogs (although the standard says heavyness is a fault - judges have there ideas of what a collie should look like

I do understand what you mean - and I think at your age its great that you are asking these questions
I used to looove crufts and watch it all the time, now I understand more about what makes a breed a breed I am banned from watching it cos I yell at the TV (the rough collies who were not let run too much cos it would take the neutrition from their coats!!) The KC says it is preserving breeds but I think they are spoiling them

I think it would be a challenge, but it could happen. I think it would require both sides to adjust their way of thinking slightly though, and I can't see that ever happening sadly

Haha, I'm just working out what my own opinion on the whole situation is to be honest!