"....like a lot of people lack the necessary knowledge about canine nutrition, to feed a raw diet"

I think this sums up this entire thread.
This is why i tell people to go away and research, don't just listen to hearsay.
This is why people feed kibble, hearsay.
Not many people know what is in it...
How then do we expect normal people to cope with RAW?
This is why Vets DO NOT recommend it.
MOST people cannot do it properly.

I have seen it time and time again. I have organised two talks in my area for Canine Health Concern, and I have spoken to people after the talks. 'too much effort about the feeding, but we won't bother to vaccinate, she says we don't have to' IS THAT what she SAID? No. Who gets the blame when it all goes wrong, not you.
If it all goes wrong for me, I take FULL responsibility, because I have made it my JOB to find out everything I can about it. I am still learning, yes.
I think the most important thing is learning to use your common sense. Comments like 'meat has bacteria' isn't common sense, when you can see your dog (if it's anything like dogs I have met) picking up and carrying rotting carcasses, and not dying the next day.
Don't loose your common sense, it's the only thing that keeps you on the right path.

Regarding the dog who was given bones and had the huge vet bill... this comes down to human error, and again another case for the vets to say 'told you people can't get it right'. Lack of homework made the dog suffer.
Most people, in my experience should feed kibble, cos they don't have to use their brains. Most people don't want to have to. I have given up even mentioning it to clients, as they next time they appear and are feeding their dog raw meat and nothing else ''don't like bones'' or whatever.
I KNOW my dogs are on a balanced diet, I am in FULL control. People who just go about the new 'fad' and don't fully understand it are not giving them a balanced diet.
The new 'fad' is actually a western idea: dog food. There are some countries who have never seen it, they still feed what they did for 1000 years. Scraps of human food, and raw meaty bones.

Seriously though SBT, are you disputing that the domestic dog is an omnivore?

Eggs and biotin.

Avidin which is present in albumen, (egg white), has an affinity for biotin, biotin is present in egg yolk.
The avidin binds to the biotin, rendering it unavailible...so it's 'shape' is not useable by the body, and is lost through the faeces.

In the 1930's an experiment was setup, feeding rats only albumen, resulting in hair loss and all kinds of weird problems.
What many people don't know is that we don't need alot of biotin in our everyday lives, and excess is gotten rid of through the faeces. Egg yolk contains TWICE as much biotin as the albumen contains avidin, so if all the avidin bonds to the biotin, there is still way more than enough for the body to use and even discard. Egg yolk is riddled with biotin. You are wasting your time separating them.

Albumen is an important protein, and is what the growing chick embyro feeds on... so lots of good stuff in there... which I think is err, just COMMON SENSE....no?
teehee, can't resist, sorry.

A cat is a true carnivore, if feed on the diet of most dogs, it would become seriously ill.

p.s. as do ferrets!

I always tell people to go and research, read books, look at the internet etc..

A few months ago, someone came on here and said.." I want to feed BARF, tell me what to feed?" and people did!!!!!!!!!!! I couldn't beleive that!!! Surely encouraging people to research the diet themselves is the best approach!!!

Anyway... its all about what you are happy feeding your dog.. If you are happy feeding barf then thats fine... if not then there is no point..

I fed my Sam for 4 years on sloppy tinned meat and dried food..He used to eat it beacuse he HAD to.. I changed slowly to barf.. and was astonished at his new zest for meal times....we took in a rescue who devoured everything given to her and enjoyed it..she still does... the only thing that slows her eating down is chicken carcasses..and the pup loves his food too..

It's all about what you are happy with.. I am happy with Barf and my dogs are happy

Ohhh hello

Interesting you're observations on water intake Mini. I have noticed too that large amounts are required with a kibble diet, even when I feed it soaked, so above and beyond the amount needed to compensate for its dried state.

I've found this variable among the brands with the worst being, in my experience, the new type Pedigree which I won in showing. Didn't finish the bag as I was too concerned about the amounts they were drinking. I haven't looked at salt or other additive levels in any great detail. This could be significant.

The increased water comsumption in itself could be a contributing factor in bloat. That said, I've had dogs bloat on various stomach contents including raw meat, cooked tripe, kibble and one on an empty stomach.

"The increased water comsumption in itself could be a contributing factor in bloat. That said, I've had dogs bloat on various stomach contents including raw meat, cooked tripe, kibble and one on an empty stomach."

But some dogs are more susceptible than others to the condition...?

I also find it worrying about how huge the average kibble 'bean' swells up when water is added. Scary, and NOT very natural. Considering they tell you to be careful about overdoing it with raisins and sultanas, as they swell to three times their size, I wonder how it must feel to eat a small meal and then have it swell inside you like that....

Sort of similar..

I have a Bengal cat.. she gets fed chicken wings and minced chicken etc.. but she goes in next door and steals their cats biscuits.. then she comes in here and moans to get water.. (She won't drink out a bowl) so we turn the tap on and she stand there for ages drinking.. then she will throw up the swollen biscuits.. still whole.. just swollen..

I hate biscuits,complete, etc with a vengeance especially when you see it doing this..

I took some of the same biscuits and put them in a cup.. and then poured on some water.. and the size they went up to was rather alarming...

If you imagine that in your cat/dogs stomach and then the water on top.. no wonder the cat was bringing them back up as there was probably no room in her stomach for it all once it had swollen

Sorry rambling *slinks off to hide*