some times thats a draw back to having a dog though, my wee shar pei was on lead for 9 years

Both methods IMO are to inflict discomfort or even pain, this is completely unnecessary, whatever happened to the reward method of training ?.

My god, what a load of tosh! Not all terriers who have never had a "clout around the ear" misbehave and are stroppy little dogs who are so spoiled that they cannot behave! I know plenty who behave with without the use of violence in their training.

I have a Westie,QUOTE]

Quite.

I've had them too and they are totally incomparable to a working terrier. Unless you're seriously telling me you have a working Westie (lmfao) you have absolutely no idea about the kind of dog I'm talking about. Is yours a pack animal? I seriously doubt it. It's astonishing how quick to judge people can be, particularly when they have no idea what they are talking about. Not everyone who owns terriers is about prancing them around a ring or trips to the shops, some use them for the purpose they were bred for.

I have no issue with any of you, nor would I disparage anyone for enjoying their dog for an aesthetic reason. Working dogs, however, are a different matter and I would like to think you would do me the courtesy of reading my post in its entirety before passing value judgements. My deerhounds have never given me the cause to clip them- a terrier with its blood up is a different matter all together.

I'd also clarify, a clip around the ear is a turn of phrase. I'm not suggesting someone literally beat a dog around the head. Is this forum totally lacking in nous? All opinions are valid but please people, drop the sanctimony. Loving animals doesn't require their deification. In front of a top end breeder I gave a terrier a tap on the bottom for growling at another btich and she agreed that it was a sensible response to a stroppy bitch. Hurting the dog is not the point, it's simply a means of putting them back in their box- a gentle short sharp shock.

Punishing a dog is pointless as it is after the fact and is simply cruel- catching a dog in the process of serious disobedience is another matter all together and should be dealt with. If your terrier (Westies are a different kettle of fish) responds to "No little Timmy, please don't eat that cat, you can have a chew chew!" then marvellous. The reality is though that working (do I need to bold that again) terriers are likely to give you the finger and promptly remove said pussy's bowels.

My wife (her login, she simply asked me to defend my views so flame me, not her) thinks I'm being mean but quite frankly I think there is a sanctimonous air about this thread and people are mistaking genuine working terriers with trip to the shop pets.

All the best



J M O.

Both methods IMO are to inflict discomfort or even pain, this is completely unnecessary, whatever happened to the reward method of training ?.

Perhaps you have or have had to resort to a smack because you fail to understand what makes the dogs tick, and use violence brought out by your frustration at being unable to stop misbehavours in a more positive way.

Where I live that would mean he is always on the lead.

Yeah it is, but I like my dogs to be able to run free and sniff what they want when they want , run and play with other dogs.
I think my dog would also prefer a couple of shocks on the collar then free rein for the rest of there lives rather than a boring life walking on the lead. I have only shocked twice for chasing sheep and have never need to again I don't even put the collar on him now.

For me I could not compete with sheep they were much more fun for me and not something I could train as I could not risk him getting a sheep and killing it or getting shot.

So because you don`t want your dog on lead, the laws of the land dont apply to you ?
Just being offlead on a farmers land is reason for your dog to be shot, the dog does not have to be doing anything untoward to livestock at the time.
Sorry but your attitude is the height of selfishness and arrogance.
When I lived in the heart of sheep country in North Yorkshire there were still plenty of places to take dogs without any livestock within miles so please don`t try claiming there is nowhere for you to take your dog to be offlead, I`m not aware of anywhere which is like a carpet of livestock...

There are more than enough places to roam without putting your dog at risk from a farmers gun and if you really can`t find anywhere else to go, a lead is a requirement whether you like it or not, so perhaps you need to decide if you should even have a dog at all if its too much trouble to find empty fields or other public places to roam in.

Having had (working) terriers for several years I find it quite simply astonishing that anyone outside the toy or "utilility" breed has never found cause to clip a dog.

Never would I beat a dog to punish it, but please, show me a terrier who hasn't benefitted from a clout round the ear and I'll show you a spoiled dog.

Terriers respond to love and affection but they also understand discipline like no other doggie race. A "no!" to a terrier is important. Try bleating that at an out of control sealie as it disappears into the sunset...For all those who called me a hypocrite- I offer this: Intentionally hurting a dog is rather different to smacking one for misbehaving. Violence isn't the point, it's simply control. Some breeds are naturally placid and will follow command regardless- stroppy little terriers are another question intirely.