Ben Mcfuzzzlugs (love your name BTW !) thanks for your kind compliments, but I can assure you it IS Cesar who should take the credit, I was merely the "Mesenger". All I did was behave exactly as I Cesar would, (even though I wanted to fall about laughing because Tai was clearly dying to sort out the stupid birds, frankly I don't blame him for wanting to chase them, they ask for it, but that would NOT be setting good rules, boundaries and limitations !!).

I AM extremely proud of Tai though ... he has been pushed around from pillar to post all of his life, apart from one temporary home never given any proper training as such, or had rules and boundaries set, and within 5 or 6 weeks, has got to this stage, OFF LEAD. Already. My old dog would NEVER in a million years have walked past those stupid birds even on lead, let alone off ! He would have dragged me all over the set aside like a rag doll (he had only been CM'd for a few months, and would have taken considerably longer than this to get to the Being Safe With Chickens stage)

But of course none of you can possibly give ANY credit at all to Cesar, that would be too much to ask.

Somebody said:

"HOWEVER, please pro CMers post one that shows me he likes dogs & dogs LIKE him"

Now I know for sure that this person definitely does NOT watch the programmes ... on virtually every episode we see dogs gazing adoringly at their Rescuer (CM), and at the end of many episodes, we see CM cuddling one of his dogs, or caressing them in some way or other. He gives of his affection sparingly, it has to be earned, not dished out like sweeties to a spoilt child to shut it up ! As a consequence, a word of praise, a quick ruffle of the ears, means far far more than constant lavish praise.

You've been rumbled ! Now I am off to take my poor traumatised, abused rescue out for some more of that desperately cruel rehabilitation ! Poor blighter, his life must be such hell.

Ok, here's my view Jonbee was just playing up and making a fuss for no reason. CM wasn't doing anything other than getting him to lay on his side. I understand why CM couldn't let the dog win - the dog wins it becomes more dominant and more aggressive.

Jonbee's tongue wasn't blue at the end. CM loosened the lead because the dog had relaxed. He keeps the lead right behind the ears as it gives more control (in the same way a canny collar does).

RE the laminate floor: it wasn't CM's fault the people had laminate flooring so that was a strange point to bring up!

Yes the dog may have been abused, it had ceratinly been stray for a while from what the owner said. But you can't feel sorry for a dog that's been abused or make allowances for it (i.e. let it get away with bad or unwanted behviour just because it's had a bad past).

One can watch CM and take from it what you will or interpret it how you want. In the end it's down to us all to be responsible dog owners and give our dogs the bestin life (exercise, discipline and affection ).

Peace out!

Yes that was me, see you are back to refering to me as "someone" again!

Go on then post me a link? ive never seen a dog gaze at him like that, with fear yes! go on then show me this adoration? all you have to do is find me a link,

Excuses excuses, the dogs tongue WAS blue, you can CLEARLY see it on the clip

The dog had not relaxed, it STILL had very very stiff legs,If this is a RELAXED dog to you then i worry!!!!

Yes they lead is up high to restrict air flow to get a dog to give up quicker.

Laminate flooring, put a RUG down,CM you DONUT.

Why did he not just "teach"the dog to lie down? How hard can that be?

That's right bullyboy. There's a lot of misconceptions from the anti-CM camp - because of the reason I stated before: there is much more info in his books than what you get on the TV shows.

Another common misconception is the word 'DOMINATE'. I think it is being misunderstood. The way it is interpreted by many people is maybe a wife beater, a drunk in a fight, a playground bully. It conjures up images of cruelty. However, dominance isn't a moral judegement or an emotional experience in the animal kingdom. It is a state of being and a behaviour which is completely natural in pack animals.

Most dogs are NOT born to be dominant, they are born to be followers. There is no in-between in the animal world. So, most dogs are at their most relaxed when they are FOLLOWING a PACK LEADER. They like to know that their leader is taking care of everything for them. This is the basis of CM's philosophy.

In Jonbee's case, I don't think it was unreasonable for CM or the owner to expect the dog to lie on it's side no matter what had happened in it's past. IF that was a trigger for it to be aggressive (which I doubt) then that trigger needs to be gotten rid of.

I hope that was eloquent enough for you all

OK the dog's tongue wasn't blue - I'm sure of it. If the iar flow was restricted it was restricted by the dog flailing around. If you watch carefully it is the dog doing all the moving. CM just corrects occaisionally.

I don't think I said the dog was relaxed I just said it didn't have a blue tongue and then explained why the lead was so high up.

TBH I think there's no way that anyone is going to agree, we'll just go round in circles and pick holes in each other's arguments.

BTW you don't need to worry about me or my dog. We are both very happy thanks

I'm going to withdraw from this thread now as it is no longer a place to discuss CM, it's just a place for anti-CMers to argue with pro-CMers.

We can all look & decide that if that dogs tongue was blue or not cant we? i think it was blue & id Freak out if my dogs tongue was turning blue like that.

I think you said CM loosned the lead because the dog was "relaxing" & not being Strangled.

Im not picking Holes , Im interested to see the Difference in What Pro & antis see.

Im sure You & your dog is very happy, i just hope nobody comes on here & thinks that that clip is a good way of teaching a dog a down because of what you have said,

How (if you are still reading) did you teach your dog a Down?

That Lead he uses is CRUEL & barabaric.Cant you see that strangling a dog is a bad thing?

The thing is That CM couldnt spot a dominate dog if it , just as he cant discriminate between a scared or agrressive dog, hes a moron.

In jonbees case.....TRAIN the dog to do a down, Educate & teach the dog.... & why does that dog HAVE to lie on its side anyway? Teach the dog that lying down is a happy place to be!

i use a slip leash and my dogs love me, if i get it out they sit with tails wagging, if it was so cruel would they not be in the corner trying to get away from me, if i dont get the leash then they get to go for a off leash run at work, so its not as if the leash is the only time they get out

mishflynn: I actually have a busy life, believe it or not, I wouldn't have a clue how to look for links showing piccies of Cesar cuddling his dogs, nor would I even if I had them to hand!

I will quote the most memorable one of all :

Daddy laying in his arms looking adoringly up at Cesar, Cesar gazing back. Remember Daddy is an entire pitbull, so not exactly your average lap dog. If you are going to tell me you have never seen this, then you have never watched The Dog Whisperer ... as if I needed any further proof.