cheeky, you would be surprised. there are people on this board who have rehabilitated dogs at least as bad as anythinf you see on the tv
the difference is, and why it wouldnt work on tv, is that they keep themselves and the dogs calm and dont push the dogs buttons to make it react. rubbish tv cos you would never see the dog worked up
i am really glad that cm can learn and take other peoples training methods into his own
i am glad that his being on tv makes people with difficult dogs seek help
but i am sad that his type of dominance based training is the one that get most of the airtime so in general people think that is the ONLY way to train a dog
as one of the few things we agree on is that there is many different ways to train a dog i think it would be really good to have some more choice on tv

Actually Minihaha, any comments/opinions I have made regarding CM have been based on some of the clips I have seen and the programmes I have watched (virtually all of them) as well as the majority of posts on this VERY LONG thread. The reason I asked to be directed to certain clips is because I am not CERTAIN that I have seen them and don't wish to give an opinion on something specific, unless I am SURE I have seen the refferred to clip. But, as usual in this thread, people like to have a dig all the time, trying to catch a CM admirer out! Well, sorry to disappoint but I am just checking on myself, that people are not referring to stuff that I haven't seen. I do have three kids and 8 dogs and a home to take care of so, if I've missed a few posts and ask for a little help in being directed to anything I feel I may have missed, in order to be fair and balanced in a replying post, then obviously I need to get out of the discussion. Dogsey isn't a full-time job. It's supposed to be fun and enjoyable alot of the time but this thread is becoming a nightmare!

Congratulations, you've just alienated another member against listening to why CM isn't such a good trainer. Like others before me, I am UNSUBSCRIBING as I don't need to be checked by you as to my comments.

I am a 43 year old woman and I don't take being spoken down to lightly. Particularly when my intention is listening fairly to your point of view and commenting appropriately.

The rest of you can carry on going round in circles on this thread, it's going nowhere but I was trying to stick it out to the end - but I GIVE UP!

I think you are right that there are training methods which would not be dramatic enough to make good television. But I believe that the internet is now becoming as influential as the television and many many people with a problem will be looking for solutions there - perhaps after being made aware (by such shows as CMs) that there can be a solution.

Hi Talassie that is why I think it is important that those of us who can see problems with CMs methods take the time to point them out and to suggest alternative methods (and trainers) so that those people who are searching for information can read the forums and maybe seek out other methods of training.

Yes I agree that everyone should be allowed to put their point of view on training methods.

Hi CheekyChi I am sorry you feel that when people are making a point they are 'having digs' and trying to 'catch a CM admirer out ' .
As to the thread 'becoming a nightmare ' I would say the methods used on some dogs by CM are no doubt a nightmare to those particular dogs and if I see people saying how wonderful CM is I feel justified in pointing out why I think his training methods are not so wonderful and using any information I can to back this up .


Most of the time when dogs have behavioural problems they are not of their own making, they are the result of a lack of socialisation/mistreatment/ misunderstanding/ on the part of humans. Should these problem dogs be punished further for human failings by being subjected to harsh remedial treatments including being almost choked to death.

If you can find any highly regarded behaviourists or trainers similar to those I quoted earlier who approve of the methods used by CM then please show them to me.

I dont think at any point anyone had a go at someone heres dogs
We have had a go at specific methods CM has used that we have seen in clips
As I am v interested in behaiviour and am a scientist I try and understand why something works and why it does not work
noone has felt able to explain the reasoning why CM uses these methods, so I can only go by what I see, what I observe from the dogs I know and the many training studies that have been carried out on how dogs learn
Everyone on here has said they dont use all the methods we are talking about, so if we have a go at those methods you dont use then how is that having a go at you?
and if it is a method you do use then you should have the understanding of what the method is doing and why that correction is given then and what the effect on the dog is
So why chuck toys out of pram?? either you dont use that method and noone is having a go - or you do and you are in the perfect place to explain the reasoning behind it

My methods are critisised, people talk about overly spoiled dogs, treated like children, wont work without treats
I know why I am doing what I am doing, I can see the results and I can explain why I am doing those things so there is no reason to get stressed

I would dispute that the paniel was screaming in fear. It was annoyed and surprised that someone was finally standing up to it maybe.

Also, he wasn't choking the dog. The lead wasn't tight all the way round it's neck. He lifted up the lead so the dog would lift it's head, then he moved the dog's head up which provoked the spitting reaction. I think that's a really good tip to get a dog to drop something.

Not all dogs will drop something to get something else. If A had a ball there is NO WAY she would give it up for something else. It's not always possible to use positive training.

I can't understand why people think the dogs that CM is working with are so fragile and can be hurt so easily by him? If it was 'screaming in fear' why was it trotting around quite happily seconds later?

That's all I have to say now and am bowing out of this thread. Thank you and good night (and happy CM bashing ).

Not even for an identical ball?

Sleep well

Didnt see a dog screaming in fear Mini, saw a dog restrained and annoyed he couldnt do much about it!