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Again, from here:

http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti.../dominance.htm


So what's the truth? The truth is dogs aren't wolves. Honestly, when you take into account the number of generations past, saying "I want to learn how to interact with my dog so I'll learn from the wolves" makes about as much sense as saying, "I want to improve my parenting -- let's see how the chimps do it!"

Dr. Frank Beach performed a 30-year study on dogs at Yale and UC Berkeley. Nineteen years of the study was devoted to social behavior of a dog pack. (Not a wolf pack. A DOG pack.) Some of his findings:

Male dogs have a rigid hierarchy.

Female dogs have a hierarchy, but it's more variable.

When you mix the sexes, the rules get mixed up. Males try to follow their constitution, but the females have "amendments."

( I love that bit, it's so true! )


Young puppies have what's called "puppy license." Basically, that license to do most anything. Bitches are more tolerant of puppy license than males are.

The puppy license is revoked at approximately four months of age. At that time, the older middle-ranked dogs literally give the puppy hell -- psychologically torturing it until it offers all of the appropriate appeasement behaviors and takes its place at the bottom of the social hierarchy. The top-ranked dogs ignore the whole thing.

There is NO physical domination. Everything is accomplished through psychological harassment. It's all ritualistic.

A small minority of "alpha" dogs assumed their position by bullying and force. Those that did were quickly deposed. No one likes a dictator.

The vast majority of alpha dogs rule benevolently. They are confident in their position. They do not stoop to squabbling to prove their point. To do so would lower their status because...

Middle-ranked animals squabble. They are insecure in their positions and want to advance over other middle-ranked animals.

Low-ranked animals do not squabble. They know they would lose. They know their position, and they accept it.

"Alpha" does not mean physically dominant. It means "in control of resources." Many, many alpha dogs are too small or too physically frail to physically dominate. But they have earned the right to control the valued resources. An individual dog determines which resources he considers important. Thus an alpha dog may give up a prime sleeping place because he simply couldn't care less.

I totally agree with what an alpha dog is like -basically very chilled out for the most part...

I'll be interested to see what forum members think of this article as to me it explains pretty much everything. I think.

I have one last part, what this means for dog owners, and will add it later ... I've posted a lot so will hold back ... LOL!!


Wys
x

That totally sums up Syd my "Alpha male"
I have no need to reinforce his status he is more than capable of doing that himself in a non aggressive manner.

As for dominance well I have my own rules formed out of self preservation and respect for my belongings. My dogs do not charge through doorways before me because I tell them to wait and they do. I would like to keep my legs intact and I don't want the house wrecked either.
My dogs do not go upstairs, and I would never let them sleep on the bed, I like my sleep and they would have all the space and plus I like some dog hair free zones.
My dogs don't sit on the sofa either, again I like to spread out and keep my furniture looking good.
My dogs are all fed together in a line and I work my way down the line in order of height. They are fed hours before me.
Has this got anything to do with Dominance? I think not, it has everything to do with respect though. I never dominated my children but they were never allowed to use the sofa as a trampoline or run riot, they observed the rules and boundaries I as a responsible adult set for them as do my dogs.

[QUOTE=Trouble;1162680]That totally sums up Syd my "Alpha male"
I have no need to reinforce his status he is more than capable of doing that himself in a non aggressive manner.

It also sums up Nala, who must, I assume, be my 'Alpha'. She never has asserted her dominance over the others i.e. growling, raised lips etc, but she only has to look at them and they will let her have what she wants.

As to the question from the OP, no, I don't do dominance. My dogs are free fed, eat leftovers from our plates (but surprisingly don't beg unless it's pizza ), go through the door in whatever order they want, normally with me in the middle of the lot of them. When fed treats, it is never in any order just whoever my hand gets to first.

Interestingly, when I walk with my friend and her 7 dogs we can give the dogs treats and it is always on a first come first served basis and we have never had a squabble in 9 years of walking and the breeds range from an Akita to a Patterdale.

They sleep upstairs and have never tried to get on the bed at night but will come up for a cuddle in the mornings and they are my hot water bottle when I stretch out on the couch at night If asked to get off they do without having to ask a second time.

What I find most interesting is that Nala is obviously the leader of my bunch but never feels the need to be first in anything and will happily wait her turn. She never walks in front of the others on a walk, is always last into the car and last back into the house. in terms of the 'dominance theory' she should be bottom of the pack

Exactly some say dogs are being dominant because they rush to go through a door first,this to me has nothing to do with dominance and is just normal canine behaviour and dogs wishing to get out and about as quickly as possible. Train them to sit and wait and they will do so....

Dogs are opportunists and will sit on a comfy sofa if given the chance and be reluctant to move, is this dominance, I don't thinks so just natural canine behaviour again... a dog looking for a comfortable bed /finding it/ wishing to retain it.

Let us look at the dictionary definition of dominant...
commanding, controlling, or prevailing over all others..some dogs can be assertive (bold and confident) and will if given the opportunity take advantage of a situation particularly if they have not been taught required behaviour but I don't think dogs are rushing to take 'command and control' over humans.

I've actually always found my males to be far more tolerant of the pups than the girls! and I have to say I've never seen the puppy licence being 'revoked' either!
Becky

I said yes and for the reasons Louise has put, we have a male Neo mastiff and female Malamute and they both know their place, both these breeds are to big and powerful to think they are above us in the pack order.

Very interesting, thanks for posting I had read Ian Dunbar's article on this here -

http://www.clickersolutions.com/arti...ierarchies.htm

What I do find slightly strange though, is that there is no reference to the breeds involved in this study... at least not so far as I have read. Do you perhaps know Wys?

Louise and some others in this thread have referred to breed differences and I too think this is a most significant point. Domestication has provided the means of altering the phenotype of dogs from that of the wolf and some of the biggest changes are in behaviour, as man selected his dogs based on the task in hand. It should be expected that a breed selected for a pack orientated activity like sled pulling will be very different from, say a breed descended from fighting origins.

I don't know if any breed comparisons were done in that long study but I think they would have seen very different behaviour between the two examples above given the same methods of study.

Yes I think something that could be attributed to breed differences.

Some breeds tend to have females as higher ranking pack members. Other breeds it's males. Obviously this doesn't always follow with a particular breed, just a generalisation.

Also .... I don't think dominance is something that most people conciously 'do' it's just natural human behaviour to give body language and a demeanor that indicates to dogs, who is in charge.

As others have already said, a confident pack leader doesn't have to constantly reinforce his leadership. This only happens in times of conflict. And so with human pack leaders, they don't need to eat first, go through doors first or demand the best seat in the house..... the dogs just know they have to give way when asked.

The methods of rank reduction, so maligned by many, only become necessary when an individual has been allowed to assume a dominant role.

I have to agree with Louise on this, I think it depends on breed, also how many dogs you may have in the home,
I have to say,,,I do dominance, but I cheat,,, I do allow my dogs on the bed, they dont sleep there but they do come up in the morning if dougies up first to say hello, they never face me up when told to get off furniture,,,but if they did,,then the rules would tighten, So I guess I get slack so long as everyone is in line, if one steps out of line they lose privilages, seems to work ok for me,