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Sal
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13-11-2006, 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by AllBreeds View Post
A few people seem to think rescue dogs are an alien breed with lots of problems, this is completely untrue like I said the majority of these dogs have come from breeders that consider themselves to be good breeders. Only a small number of dogs in rescue have been abused and have issues the rest are no different than the pups you purchase from a breeder.

I don't see rescue dogs that way,but there are many obstacles that rescue's put in the way and then some people will turn to a breeder.Like has already been pointed out,rescue dogs don't come with paperwork,pedigrees etc,so for people that want to show it rules out a rescue.
Alot of breeders will never say they are bad breeders,there is a difference between a good breeder and a good reputable breeder that will ensure they keep in touch with the family that has taken one of there pups,they are on the end of a phone 24/7,will take a pup back at any stage of it's life and so on.
I don't think it's fair to pressure and bully people into taking a rescue,it has to be right for the individual concerned and sometimes a rescue dog is just not right.
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Moobli
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13-11-2006, 04:05 PM
Originally Posted by spot View Post
See I find it offensive when people assume all rescue dogs will have problems, bad temperatments and cant be trusted. I find it unbelievable that people think there are no pedigree dogs in rescue, Ive got 2! (however in my breed there are specific problems but thats another arguement). I also find it upsetting when people imply that you can turn up to any rescue and pick up a dog regardless without there being any checks or thought going into it.

Rescues have a hard enough time caring and saving dogs without this sort of misinformation being spread, there are thousands of very very dedicated people out there trying so damn hard to get these dogs into perfect homes for little or no thanks.
Firstly, I would imagine that most, if not all, on a forum such as this realise there are hundreds of pedigree dogs in rescue - no-one is disputing that.

No-one is disputing the demanding and great work that most rescues do.

No-one is implying that owners of rescue dogs have given less thought to their prospective companion than those who go to a breeder.

What I am disputing is the right to choose. I am a dedicated owner, I choose my pups from reputable sources and I see nothing wrong in what I do. I have owned a rescue dog, and I probably will do again in the future. However for my circumstances right now, and for the forseeable future, a reputable breeder and a puppy is the route I choose to take.
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AnneUK
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13-11-2006, 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post
That is a pretty simplistic view though and in an ideal world all dogs would have homes. However, where do dogs bred to work - ie sheepdogs, gundogs, police dogs, guide dogs etc, come into your way of thinking?
I reguarly donate dogs that come into my rescue for working purposes; dogs for the disabled, sniffer dogs and police dogs, out of all the dogs I've donated only one was returned because he didn't make the grade, it's ashame others don't follow suit ie guide dogs
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Moobli
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13-11-2006, 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by Muddiwarx View Post
I find this hard to believe if they were good breeders then they would take their dogs back ... just because they "consdier themselves" to be good breeders doesn't mean they are !!!

I thoiught I was a good singer until I joined a choir


We should also remember that not all owners will return their dogs to the breeder, whatever contract they have I have heard of pedigree dogs from reputable breeders turning up in rescue kennels and the breeder has been absolutely mortified when they have found out, and have taken the dogs out of rescue immediately.
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megan57collies
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13-11-2006, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by AllBreeds View Post
Only because I see first hand the dogs that are destroyed for no other reason than lack of homes.
A few people seem to think rescue dogs are an alien breed with lots of problems, this is completely untrue like I said the majority of these dogs have come from breeders that consider themselves to be good breeders. Only a small number of dogs in rescue have been abused and have issues the rest are no different than the pups you purchase from a breeder.
To me it's simple until dogs stop being killed through lack of homes, anyone who brings more dogs into this already over populated world is only adding to the problem.
Woh woh woh. You have an opinion and by all means express it but don't attack people who have a differing opinon.
First of all everyone who has a dog sympathises with the issues of rescue dogs and their numbers.
Secondly, after working in two rescue centres and I will speak from that experience only not rescues at a whole.
Alot of the dogs there are abandoned and have no history. People who did bring them in did not say who had bred the dog so I find your comment regarding good breeders confusing. If a breeder brings half a litter in then they are not a good breeder. They could have stopped the litter happening in the first place and I hope this was put forward to them. In this day and age there are ways of stopping an accidental mating.
Thirdly, yes good breeders do and often in my experience will take the dog back at anytime during the lifetime of the dog, so that was your third error. People I know have had phone calls from centres saying that a pup they sold previously had been put in to the rescue. The breeder has very little control after that pup goes to it's new homes. Some people would rather dump the dog rather than admit defeat to the person they brought them from.
The problem is mainly with the law. When you sell a dog it is like buying a sofa. In the eyes of the law the breeder does not really have a leg to stand on whatever they put in their contract.
What we have to address and pressure is the government to change the laws regarding puppy farm breeders. What we also need to do is educate people into the problems of having a litter and why it is better in many cases not to have one.
At a club I instructed at a lady was having puppies as she didn't want her bitch to lose out being a mother. What a silly excuse. It is these people that need educating not sensible breeders who might breed a handful of times over many years.
I chose to get a registered puppy. Why? Because I wanted to be certain that their were no temperament or health issues for my dogs and this was the best thing I could do. Would I have a rescue dog in the future. Yes I would. It just wasn't for me at that time as I considered my other animals and family and what would work best for me at the time. With having a lively breed such as a border collie I decided to go with getting a puppy with a complete history. My choice!!!! I have many friends in agility who have gone down the rescue route with their collies. Are they nice dogs. In the main, yes they are. So it's down to individual choice and opinon what and where we get our dogs from. Whether its from a rescue or from a good breeder who we know will give a lifetime support to us and our dogs.
Yes there are good and bad breeders. There are also good and bad dogs, good and bad owners, the list goes on.
As long as people make an educated and informed choice about their dogs. That is the important thing.
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AnneUK
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13-11-2006, 04:09 PM
Originally Posted by pod View Post
That's worrying but interesting. Where are these stats from Allbreeds? Could you give references please.
It was a survey done in August incuding The Dogs Trust, Battersea Dogs Home, The Mayhew Animal Home and a number of the RSPCA centres.
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AnneUK
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13-11-2006, 04:12 PM
Originally Posted by megan57collies View Post
Woh woh woh. You have an opinion and by all means express it but don't attack people who have a differing opinon.
Who am I attacking??? Just giving my opinion like everyone else. Home truths will often cause upset….
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Zoundz
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13-11-2006, 04:14 PM
I currently have a rescue dog - and I am 100% sure that the next dog I get will be from a good breeder. I completely disagree with everything you have said 'allbreeds' - in fact a great deal of it is rude and deeply offensive - you will make no friends with such a narrowminded, black and white, childish view.

so, if I was a breeder, perhaps of pointers, a reasonably rare breed, and I had someone coming to me for a pup. If I was to not breed, so that they didn't get their pedigree pup that they so want, do you think they would just say 'ooh! I can't get it from the breeder I wanted it from, so I'll go to a rescue!"? - well no - that's simply not the case - for a start, harder to find breeds do not turn up in rescues all that often - with the exception of breed rescue, and even then not often. Chances are, if they can't find a good breeder, they are likely to go to a backyard breeder or puppy farm - who will take full advantage of the fact that a 'rare' breed costs a lot of money - and will be only too happy to breed for demand.

Basically then - by stopping responsible breeders, you are not giving more dogs in rescue a new life - you are just adding to the population of poorly bred, sickly, weak puppy farm dogs - a LOT more of which are likely to end up in rescue, as those farmers won't take them back! Thus adding to your rescue population.

The more people that go to responsible breeders means the less dogs in rescue. It's like the rats I breed (go on - shoot me), I have a 100% return policy - if ANYONE cannot cope, those rats come back here. ALWAYS. I am there 24/7 for all my new owners - and I stay in touch all the time to keep relevent health records. I breed far more litters than any good dog breeder wouild - on average 2-4 a year - and I know where every single one is. This is of course because the lifespan is so much shorter.

If people stopped buying small pets from petshops, and only bought from reputable breeders - then there would be very little, if any, call for rescues at all. it's no differetn with dogs I'm afraid. IF people stopped buying from poor breeders, and only went to good responsible breeders, then rescues would fade away.

that would be wonderful.

xx
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pod
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13-11-2006, 04:14 PM
Thanks Allbreeds....was that published anywhere?
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AnneUK
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13-11-2006, 04:15 PM
Originally Posted by Moobli View Post


We should also remember that not all owners will return their dogs to the breeder, whatever contract they have I have heard of pedigree dogs from reputable breeders turning up in rescue kennels and the breeder has been absolutely mortified when they have found out, and have taken the dogs out of rescue immediately.
Makes you wonder why the owner felt the dog would be better off in rescue.

When I get pedigrees in with paper I always contact the breeder to give them a ticking off but no way would I return one for it to be sold on again
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